Kiplinger Names Houston #1 City to Work, Live & Play

with this unique perspective, what similarities and differences do you see in regards to NY and LA?


also, as far as affordability goes, i understand condos in NY or LA or chicago run in the several millions, but

come on, this isn't exactly affordable. how do normal people get in to something like this? are they renting/leasing as opposed to buy it outright at the price listed?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/biz/5810944.html

 

I think it's important to distinguish the differences between "a great place to live" vs. "a great place to visit". Generally when people talk about how cool a place is they talk about stuff tourists would like: Scenery, historic infrastructure, recreational opportunities outside the "norm", etc...

Houston, generally, has none of those things. So it is very easy for people to say that Houston sucks because they wouldn't want to visit. Can't say I blame them!

However, living here is a completely different story! As Jeff mentioned, Houston has just about EVERYTHING a person could want in a place to live yet it doesn't cost a lot to live here. We have major league (pretty much) everything from sports (ok, not hockey) to the arts, to restaurants, to beautiful women.

Sure, it would be nice to be able to walk out your door into the mountains or drive five minutes and be skiing but there aren't a whole lot of places where you can do that and, where you can, it's pretty expensive.

People rag on the summers in Houston and they do suck but three seasons out of the year we have pretty nice outdoor weather.

Regarding Austin... I like that city and enjoy visiting it. I think I would probably enjoy living there as well, however, it's clear that when you start checking boxes next to city amenities Houston is going to have more. Austin has prettier scenery, for sure, though!

 

Isn't Houston larger (in area) than LA? I don't think Houston ever has to worry about becoming LA.

 

Where to start on this thread...

Okay here we go. Those of you deriding Houston for its "strip malls" are out & out idiots. Where do you live - Old Town Spring? The Latin Quarter of Paris?

Every city in this country is overrun with strip malls. Austin? Perhaps if you live in a loft in the Warehouse District and never leave it you won't see them but walk or drive 2 minutes in any direction and what do you see - strip malls!

LA/Orange County/San Diego - all the stores are in strip malls.

I live in NYC now. What happens when I leave Manhattan - what do I see? Strip malls!

Give it a rest already. Commercial businesses across the U.S. are predominately based in strip malls.

Now let's turn to "sprawl." What some of you call "sprawl," most call "suburbs." Tell me, If someone does not work downtown, or if they want to get a decent house for their $ even if they work downtown, why should they be looked at dismissively? Should everyone cram into Midtown or The Heights to be cool?

Oh - any of you ever traveled to Denver, LA, Austin, NYC, Philly? What happens when you leave the city limits? Do you see open pastureland, canyons? No - you see more "sprawl" until you leave the metro area of any city. What makes Houston's "sprawl" different? The fact that it's still called Houston that far out? Perhaps if the Memorial area became the City of Memorial and Houston ended at the 610 Loop that would solve the problem for you.

Mass Transit - I agree that commuter rail between Katy, Sugarland, Woodlands, Kingwood, & Galveston into Downtown w/ stops in between would be amazing. How many of you would be willing to pay more in taxes for it though? How many would be willing to become politically active to fight for it? Not many I would guess. Sitting around b****ing that it doesn't exist & waiting for politicians to magically make it appear does nothing.

Also, I will echo Rocket Rich though in that many of you are romanticizing mass transit. I take the subway to work every day and it is easily the most miserable part of my life up here. Late trains, no a/c on platforms, bums pissing themselves on subway car benches, beggars, overcrammed cars, etc, etc. I finding myself WISHING I were commuting in a comfortable car with a/c and listening to the music of my choice even if stuck in I-10 traffic for 30 minutes. I will take a 30+ minute commute in a private car over a 20 minute subway ride every damn time if given the choice. So would most of you if you had that option.

Look, I don't mind the pointing out of the pros & cons of any city, but so many of the posts on this thread are insanely hypocritical when it comes to comparing one place to live to another.

Perceptions about cities seem to form based really on a few things - geography, climate, and media coverage. This is why Houston so often comes out on the losing end in people's discussions. Houston is very green but is hot, humid, and built on a bayou. It's the 4th largest city in the country but the NY/LA based media dismisses it b/c they have no real reason to understand/cover it and they lump it in with the South/Texas in their collective "elitist" thinking about anything that is not NY or LA.

My boss here in NY - a Columbia University educated guy who grew up here - had no idea Texas had huge cities in it like Houston, Dallas, and SA. He thought it was simply a conservative state with a few towns full of "backwards thinking" people. He is not alone in that and so widely-held opinions are created by people who don't know any better. People here and in LA are incredibly geographically biased/prejudiced and usually b/c they don't care to learn anything outside of their own little world.

 

To continue my rant, let me go into my current home - NYC.

I love the city for its energy & vibrancy. What do I mean by that? I mean that the restaurants are open until 2 am, the bars until 4 am. The city is on the water & "looks cool" in an aesthetic sense. Transportation is cheap & fairly quick by train, bus, or taxi, even if nasty. The arts, music, & museum scenes are great. The city is full of people in their 20's & 30's with good jobs & who are always out & about. Women outnumber men.

Amazing sounding, right? Well let's break that down a bit:

Restaurants & Bars: yes they are open late but are empty during the week during those late hours. Unless you are a trust fund baby, unemployed, or an alcoholic it is meaningless except for on Friday & Saturday. Many would consider 2 extra hours to drink on those days overkill anyway.

Geography/Climate: It's cold as **** for way too long. When it rains the city is a disgusting mess. 2 weeks ago I could see my breath as I walked to work. The buildings look cool but are old, infrastructure is poor. Apartments are tiny and superexpensive. I pay a crapload to live in an aptmt that is no better than the one I had in college - and I am well off by any objective measure. The city looks nice on the river when you're on a boat looking at it but when you're in it, it means nothing. The rivers are polluted - you cant fish or swim in them.

Transportation: See my last post on this.

Arts/Music/Museum scene: Great, but as someone who works his ass off that means nothing except for on the weekends. How often do you really get to go to an art gallery, museum, or to see a band? Once or twice a month if you are lucky?

The young professional scene: Also great, but I am a young single guy with a good job. The dating scene here is a nightmare for those without much money - drinking PBR's in Williamsburg won't cut it with the women. Going out to eat & drink costs a ****load whether alone or dating. Girls constantly complain that because all of the "choices" guys have, they can't get a guy to settle down. Couples who marry, unless ultrarich have to move to the fringes of the city or pay half a mill/5k a month mortgages to buy a one bedroom, thus negating the point of living in the city (if they move) or making them so broke they can't go out & enjoy it anyway.

Women outnumber men: Okay, this is good no matter how you look at it.

Compare all that to Houston though - is 2 extra hrs at the bar a "city-killing" thing? Willing to trade trees for a concrete jungle? Are you willing to trade the heat for the cold? Is the subway really a better thing than your car (and for the environmentalists - do you understand how much electricity it takes to run the subway and the pumps to keep the water out of the tunnels?)? How often do you take advantage of Houston's arts scene? Do that many bands that you really wanna see skip Houston to make moving to NY worth it for that? Given what I've told you about the young professional dating scene here is Houston's that much worse? Is the insanely inflated real estate pricing here something you can get past?

You can do the same sort of pro & con thing with any city or in comparing cities. Some of you should try it before running off with some of the moronic posts in this thread.

 

Good post overall.

I went to school in Atlanta, and had classmates from every state in the country, and a lot of international students too. There were so many people that actually thought I lived on a farm or rode a horse to school. And I'm talking about folks from cities much smaller than Houston.......

 

Nice post Rocket G. But, if I am wealthy, its NYC, no contest. Great post though.

 

Thx Jeff & Icehouse. gr8, I agree with you - for the wealthy New York is impossible to beat. For everyone else, even those you would consider objectively well off, long term living here is a grind.

"Life" in Houston is much easier - for lack of a better word - than it is here.

 

Amazing post. Having lived in NYC for 5 years, I completely agree with you. Sure, I dislike my commute now in the morning, but I still thank God everyday I'm able to do it in the comforts of my climate-controlled car, rather than on the s**tty subway surrounded by offending odors, sketchy people, mold-laden seats, and ear-piercing subway screeches. (It's literally an assault on all 5 major senses.) The majority of you who b**** and moan about traffic here have NO IDEA how bad your commute could be. Let's look at the typical commute of a person who lives outside of NYC trying to get into the city:

1) Drive car to train station and try to find parking spot
2) Take 30 min to 1 hour train to NYC (with possibility of NO seat)
3) Take subway to appropriate station (with possibility of NO seat)
4) Walk to place of employment from subway station

That's four f***ing modes of transportation you have to use in order to get to work. FOUR! And then you do it all over again on the way back, just so you can return to your ridiculously overpriced house you can barely afford. And yet, millions of people do it daily. No wonder NYers are perpetually rude and miserable.

 

Damn, good stuff Rocket G! You said it MUCH better than I did.

LOL at the Old Town Spring reference. Maybe we can put this bizarre "strip mall" argument to rest once and for all now. Seriously, I have never understood where it comes from. Every city in the....aw, forget it. You already said it better than I can.

I would add one more point to your mass transit section. I would venture to say that most people whining about our lack of mass transit have never even TRIED Metro. If they won't even try it, what makes you think they would ride it every day if it was a train instead of a bus? Because really, that will be the only difference - a train instead of a bus. Everything else (clientele, routes, stops, travel time, etc.) would be exactly the same. If anything, a train will have less options than a bus because there's only so many tracks vs. endless roads for busses.

People who have never tried Metro, yet complain about lack of mass transit are like people who complain about our politicians, yet never vote.

 

Umm, perhaps you should be posing these questions to yourself?

A number of things are wrong above, but for public service's sake, your contention that taking the subway is anywhere even remotely as environmentally damaging than taking an automobile due to "electricity" is offensively ignorant.

 

People will take it in Houston when it loses its stigma as only being for poor people. When this tipping point happens is anybody's guess.

 

My wife and I knew we had to leave Detroit and weren't tied to anywhere. We couldn't find a better place in the country than Houston.

We did a one-for-one comparison of every city we could find. Houston came out on top every time as a city to LIVE in ...not play. Good jobs, low cost of housing and plenty of things to do ...if you have a car.

People who b**** about Houston heat often have never lived in the snow. Northern winters suck JUST as bad as Houston summer.

Wanna know the difference?

1. It's a Fing load more expensive to live in a cold climate than a hot climate. To deal with heat, you buy sandels, shorts and a t-shirt. $30. To deal with cold, you buy boots, giant winter jacket, scarf, hat, gloves and layers of under clothing. $500. Then when winter is over, you store all the crap away to pull out your summer wardrobe.

2. You think driving in Houston is bad? On more than one occasion I was driving and looked next to me to see a car spinning on ice. You have ZERO control of your destiny. Nothing you can do cause if you react you'll start spinning too. So you just drive straight and hope they don't hit you. F that. Give me Houston.

3. How about how much time cold weather adds to your life. Everything that you do in a warm climate takes you AT LEAST 2x as long to do in a cold climate. Never mind all the chores you gotta do that don't even exist like "winterizing" your car or house like silly things such as making sure your hoses are all pulled in and lawn furniture etc etc etc. Like scraping ice of your windshield. Like clearing snow off your sidewalk/driveway 3 or 4 times a week. Mind you, all of these tasks require that you are IN the blistering cold to do these things.

4. Also, winter days are shorter. In Houston that means that it gets dark abour 5:30. In the north, it gets dark at like 4pm. And the sun comes up after 8am. So it's midnight when you leave for work and midnight when you get off work. You NEVER see the sun except on weekends for months on end.

I'll take Houston summer over a northern winter any time.

They both suck. But blistering summer is cheaper, simplier, less time consuming and MUCH less depressing than a miserable winter.

 

houston doesn't need mass transit because it's cool, it needs mass transit because we are one of the most polluted cities in the country and because mass transit - if done correctly - is a SUSTAINABLE alternative to gasoline-burning automobiles. how convenient is that car of yours when gas is sitting at 6 or 7 dollars a gallon and you have a 45-60 min. commute each way 5 days a week?

this isn't some argument revolving around being hip, this is about encouraging people on a large level to change their attitudes and providing viable transportation alternatives that WORK.

 

Really? What exactly is wrong in my post? Please expound. I've been living in NYC for a few years now and those are my observations. If you have different ones please share them with us. Please tell me you're not disagreeing with me on the climate, "going out"/dating and related expense issues, and the insanity of the real estate/rental market. If you are I would really like to know what exactly you do up here or how much you enjoy miserable weather.

I have asked myself those questions and guess what? Now that NYC has served its purpose in advancing my career (I'm getting offers I never would have gotten in Houston before had I not made the move here) and giving me the "NYC experience" I'm planning on moving to Houston again.

As for my comment re: the subway - does the subway run on wind power? Geothermal? What exactly goes into powering the entire subway system (cars, platforms, stations, related infrastructure) in any one given day? How many people drive to outlying stations from upstate, CT, etc and then take the subway rather than simply walk or bike then take it?

How much tax money gets poured into running it?

Perhaps you need to re-read my post but I never said that a city full of car commuters is environmentally friendly or in any way better from that standpoint than driving. I even mentioned how nice commuter rail would be great in Houston. I disagree with you that the tipping point is a perception that mass transit is for the poor. You're making Houstonians out to be elitist pricks. The tipping point will come when people decide that they are willing to pay more in taxes for such a system (maybe when gas gets expensive enough) and then demand that their politicians listen to them and not the highway, airline, and auto lobbies.

My point with my posts was to show that you can dog any city the way some posters have Houston, in any number of ways.

In the end it comes down to what you can tolerate & what you're willing to sacrifice in choosing a city to live in.

When I moved to NYC I gave up a nice house w/ a backyard in a nice neighborhood for a one bedroom apartment. I gave up not having to pay a state income tax. Etc, etc. When I leave NYC for Houston I will be giving up the ability to select from a more diverse career path, a more exciting nightlife, women every 5 feet that I fall in lust with...

 

You lived in NYC for 5 years and you believe NYers are rude and miserable? For some reason I think you're full of s***. Thats one of the most MISLEADING stereotypes ever!

Most NYers take 1 or 2 modes of transportation- not FOUR like you mentioned. You're talking about the WORST case scenario. Most just take SUBWAY, TRAIN, or CAR depending on where they live- thats it. Not many DRIVE to the train station, TAKE a 1 hour LIRR train, and HOP on the subway transferring 3 times and then WALK 10 blocks to work. You've got to be a dumbass to not figure out a better way to get to work.

Your exxageration disgusts me. Walking from the subway to your work is the same as walking from your parking lot into your office building. Sure, driving is more convenient than mass transit, but nobody commutes the way you describe.

 

I had an opportunity to live in NYC. But, there were kids from wealthy families splitting rooms with adults. That wasn't how I wanted to live, so I just visited instead.

Austin will never be the economic mecca of Houston, but it definitely has it's charms. I think alot of Texans hate on it because it's viewed as being a "hip city." And I think some of the downtown condos are preposterously expensive. My friendl ived in a smaller place in downtown Austin than my brother did. Same price, but I'd argue the Brooklyn apt was bigger and nicer.

It is very well liked by non-Texans though.

 

What you're describing isn't living in NYC. That's living in Hoboken or Connecticut. It's like living in Huntsville and saying Houston sux.

 

Let me look at my current Metrocard....

On the back it says:

"Your carbon footprint is about 1/4 of the national average! We're happy to have done our part."

MTA Going your way -- greener
www.mta.info/environment

You live in NYC so I suspect you take the subway right? Take a look around, you'll see signs everywhere.