Will Kobe be considered the greatest Laker of all time?

Hmmmm in the same sentence you say they were "far more" successful and then "slightly better" with Shaq.

Therefore, you lose all credibility.

 

1. totally irrelevant to the Kobe argument. Shaq got his team to finals, and Hardaway was good player, but he wasn't great. Besides, wasn't he playing against another HOF center (a better one in the minds of most Rocket fans). And this was only his third year in the league...could you see Kobe leading any team in his third year to a championship? How is that contradicting facts, Shaq has shown he can win with just about any team, didn't he get the struggling Heat (with an injured Wade) into the playoffs last year. And remember this is Shaq on his last leg.

2. Kobe's defense is great, never said it wasn't....Shaq never had great defense, but he was certainly above average and that alone effects the whole play of team remember, if a big man plays decent enough defense he can effect the entire game for his team, less points in paint (contested shots/blocks/intimidation factor), more defensive rebounds, and limiting teams to lower percentage mid-range jumpers and 3s. Kobe can pretty much just lock down one position and that is it...he is not going to have same impact on the floor as Shaq will on defense. It's like comparing Bowen to our own Yao, Bowen is by far better defender, but Yao changes the game on defense way more than Bowen does, because he defends the entire paint/post.

3. Shaq sets up his teammates so much better than Kobe ever did, Shaq willingly passed the ball the open teammates, who had those opportunites because everyone was so focused on him...he knew it was winning formula (see Orlando, LA, and Miami). Shaq with dead eye shooters was about the most deadly combination you could ever come up against because Shaq was very good passer. FT% was low, but strange thing about that is he shoots higher FG%....he can average the same amount of points as 8 ... 24 ....or whatever he goes by on lesser shot attempts and get better opportunities for his teammates than trying to score lower percentage shots. Also, Shaq never had losing season in his entire career (unless you count this year with Miami), he single-handely had the awful Magic on the verge of the 1st playoff appearance in his first season.

4. Kobe does dominate, mostly in scoring. But I don't believe he can dominate the way Shaq ever did. He was ready to ship the best chance he had at a title out of town for Jason Kidd and ran away Shaq. Shaq is proven winner....he is on another level beyond Kobe. Both have colossal egos, but really what has

You don't think the Lakers could've won a title with Eddie Jones/Van Exel (no Kobe) or let's say they had another guard like Steve Smith, Ray Allen, T-Mac, Latrell Sprewell, or Allan Houston....with all other pieces in place.

These are Shaq's number's below...he was the last real center in the league....Kobe is great SG, but again there are alot of good shooting guards out there....how many big men know are on the same level as Shaq between 94 to 05....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html/

 

you need to re-read the topic of the thread, the greatest Laker of all time. Wilt was way past his prime when he was traded to the Lakers. Wilt was with the Lakers for about 5 years ???

all the great # that Wilt put up were accomplished in the pre-Lakers days. !!!!

 

Shaq could have gone down as the best center of all time. He is not even in the top 5 due to his lack work ethic. He also was fortunate to play during a time when most the dominate true big men were retired or close to it.

Kobe din not run away shaq...you should get your facts correct. Shaq did and Buss obliged.

You obviously have a man love for Shaq. It's all good. But your observations are absurd.

His famous quote says it all. "Kobe need to be a team player and play team ball if we are going to win. This is MY team and the ball needs to go to me"

Priceless!!!!!

 

No, you need to re-read the posts we were responding to.

Posts: 33, 34, 35, 38, and 40.



EDIT: Oh, and 72.7% FG for an entire season as a Laker isn't a "great#" now?

 

Someone else was talking about how Bird, Magic and MJ are supposedly the top three players of all time neglecting to mention Wilt. That is what I'm refering to in my post.

If you read what I've posted in this thread, my vote is definitely going to Magic.

 

You're are some child poster who probably never watched basketball before 2002....possibly a Kobe fan.


Shaq is not a great worker, but he is easily a top 5 big man, He may not be as great as Wilt, Kareem, Russell, or even Dream, but he is in their league, plus can you find another big man who is better than Shaq at center.

Kobe didn't run Shaq out of town, but he wasn't necessarily lobbying for him to stay.

 

Well, since I have seen Wilt and Russel play in person and am probably twice your age, there goes your theory.

1. Wilt
2. Akeem
3. Kareem
4. Russel
5. Mikan
6. Moses
7. Shaq

IMO

 

ur wrong; the all-NBA sg hardaway and and Shaq. once again, facts contradict your baseless claim.

he was selected to the all-nba team.

actually, Shaq was riding on DWade's coattail. as a matter of fact, Shaq's ppg was 10 pts below his career avg. auguablly, Zo made more contributions than Shaq. for you to give all the credit to Shaq is just laughable

my advise to you is to learn write clearly and succintly. cos nobody can understand---not even youself---WTF ur writing.

once again, a baseless claim; check the facts, he was teamed with an all-nba SG hardaway.

the height of ignorance. get the facts right. stop embarrassing yourself.

• Shaq, with 2 yrs left, tried to railroad Dr. Buss to give him a 5-yr extension at the max. Shaq publicized his discontent w the lack of progress on the extension, leading to the ingrate calling Dr. Buss a cheap skate in front of the entired team and coaches. that was the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back". Shaq mishandled the whole situation, his ego / big mouth sealed his own fate.

actually no; the most feared baller, among NBA ballers, is Kobe, the cold-blooded assasin.

no, none of them can hold Kobe's jock straps.

 

You've got Moses and Mikan over Shaq, definitely what makes them out right better?

I will even say Kareem and Dream....both I think are more versatile than Shaq, but Shaq career is almost as successful as Kareem, but even more than Dream.

I think he could easily be higher than 7.

 

first, you need to re-read the title of this thread. "Lakers"

 

Mikan was the first dominant true center in the league. He led his team to 5 titles. He was unstopable.

I liked Moses's work ethic and intensity so i gave him the nod over shaq.

Almost as successful as kareem?

 

Maybe you should read the posts. I replied to the poster who was drooling all over Shaq as being the best laker by giving my opinion of how he could have been the best center of all time but is not. I listed my opinion of best centers. As Wilt and Kareem were both lakers and on the list ABOVE Shaq, I assumed even the dullest crayon in the box could see the correlation. My bad!

 

1. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html/

Again, these were Shaq's averages....Don't you remember this was Shaq who was on his last leg....best days are behind him and he is the main focus of Dallas's defense. Dallas's strategy was working for 2 games and half, because they were doing what they set out to do which was shut down Shaq. It was winning them two games until Wade got hot.

2. What's wrong with Shaq asking for more money? I believe at the time he was about the best player in the league...no he was the best player 3x time champion and 3x Finals MVP and dominating in the playoffs. Why shouldn't he not ask for more money?

3. Didn't Kobe say he wanted to be the main man? He could carry a team without having such great big man like Shaq? You left out the part where I said Shaq had massive ego, so did Kobe.....but Shaq was way more proven than Kobe was at that point. Wasn't it Kobe who snitched on Shaq (when he was charged with rape), wasn't it Kobe carried on rivalry between the two, wasn't it Kobe who was considered a ball hog, wasn't it Kobe who lobbied to trade Andrew Bynum (who could possibly be all pro center one day) for an aging Jason Kidd.....

4. Ever heard of Hack a Shaq and teams stocking paint with gimmick zones defenses....pretty much because of you know who.

 

Shaq was also unstoppable, I could bring the caliber of competition into equation, but I won't.

Moses was great, but he did not have the same kind of dominance as Shaq did.

 

I never said CONVINCINGLY BETTER but a CONVINCING ARGUMENTs

I hate Magic Johnson . .as a Rocket Fan he crushed many of my dreams
but
the man made the Lake show run like no other. . .

He could basically Score AT WILL from all 5 positions
He made people like James Worthy and Jamal Wilkes into Greats
[I like Jamal but he had to be WIDE OPEN for that slow *ss wind up ]

Jordan is probably the best Scorer of the two
but that is about it . .. Maybe an edge on Defense
but
Magic is BY FAR the better facilitator
from running the show to distributing

He could play All five positions [even played center for one game]

Only reason Stockton got the assist record is
because Magic's HIV and Stockton's 50 yrs in the league

Rocket River

 

Asking for more money is ok. Yelling it at the top of your lungs at the owner as your running down the floor in a game in front of the media is not.

Kobe almost always took the high road when it came to the confrontations. The media hyped a lot of it up. Kobe did rat on him during the trail and that is unforgiveable no doubt.

So you say that shaq deserved more money because he was so dominant and the mvp.... and yet 2 years later he's on his last legs? hmmmmmm

 

I am not one to judge based on caliber of competition. Comparing different eras is just impossible. In 50 years there will be players making this generations players look weak.

 

You don't know where your game is gonna fade or when your injuries are going to take a toll on your body...he was demanding such request....he was the best player in the league. It surely wasn't Kobe who lead the Lakers to one non-playoff appearance (he was injured though and two first round exits.

 

You should go back and look at the 2nd championship. Kobe actually was the Laker that pulled them through. Yes, Shaq got the MVP but lets be serious, the MVP is voted on by the media and a popularity contest. No way the media gives the distant Kobe a mvp over the darling shaq.