I think that you meant to say that you can't combine the TE with another players salary for the purpose of matching salaries in a trade. That not the same thing as saying that you can't package a player with a TE. Under the right circumstances it can and has been done. Basically, the trade rules allow each team to break up the trade into one or more deals as long as the deal or deals work for both sides. The ability for each team to view the trade as one or more deals as they wish allows teams to get around the rule. That's exactly what happened in the trade where the Rockets acquired McGrady for Francis, Cato and Mobley. In order to make the deal work from their perspective the Rockets viewed the deal as three smaller deals, one of which used their trade exception. From Orlando's point of view it was just one big deal. The net result though was that the Rockets sent Francis, Mobley and Cato along with their TE to Orlando. Here's an explanation from Coon's salary cap FAQ which uses the McGrady trade as an example; However, it is sometimes possible to reorganize these trades so that players technically are not aggregated. A good example of this occurred in 2004 when Houston traded Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley and Kelvin Cato to Orlando for Tracy McGrady, Juwan Howard, Tyronn Lue and Reece Gaines. As a single trade, it could only be simultaneous since multiple players were moving each way. However, Houston was able to reorganize the trade into three separate trades. In one trade, they acquired McGrady and Gaines for Mobley and Cato. In another trade, they acquired Howard and Lue using an existing Traded Player exception from their earlier Glen Rice trade. That left them trading Francis essentially by himself for nothing, which generated a new Traded Player exception in the amount of Francis' base year value. From Orlando's perspective, it was a single, simultaneous three-for-four trade http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#69 That's not correct. In the recent Jason Kidd trade the Mavs signed and traded Keith Van Horn along with Diop and Harris. The eight-time All-Star point guard returns to the franchise of his NBA birth after the eight-player deal with New Jersey was finally consummated Tuesday morning. After six days of twists and turns, the Mavs dealt Devin Harris, Gana Diop, Trenton Hassell, Moe Ager, Keith Van Horn, a pair of draft picks and cash to acquire Kidd, Malik Allen and Antoine Wright from New Jersey. The Mavs re-signed Van Horn, who hasn’t played since the 2006 Finals, to make the deal work financially. To make room for Van Horn, rookie forward Nick Fazekas was waived. http://www.nba.com/mavericks/news/Kidd_trade_021908.html
I know what you're saying. I spent the better part of a work day last week reading that salary cap FAQ you linked to in your post and I remember reading the breakdown of the TMac trade. In the end, it's still seperate trades. And from what I gather, the TE was not (and cannot be) sent with a player in a single trade. In that instance it was sent by itself for Howard and Lue, independent of the other "parts" of the deal. So I don't think the Head + TE for J.R. Smith deal could be done without Denver including another player (allowing for 2 seperate moves).
We need a PG who can shoot better than 40% and still distribute the ball without turning it over...here's my top 4 PG that would fit that criteria and could be on the move this summer. 1 | Jose Calderon 2 | Beno Udrih 3 | TJ Ford 4 | Kirk Heinrich
If all Denver wants in exchange for Smith is TE and Head, Morey better get on his knees and thank the basketball gods for a gift from bb heaven.
No it was a single trade. Viewing it as three trades was just an accounting move by the Rockets. For it to work from Orlando's perspective it was a single trade to them.
I think it's still technically 3 seperate trades that are treated as and viewed as 1. My point is that the trade proposed in this thread wouldn't be possible because there aren't enough pieces to split it into 2 deals. At the very least Denver would have to involve one other player wouldn't they?
I agree, I don't see us making any major trades because we have nothing to offer people. We won't give up Tmac, Yao, Scola, those are the pieces people would want, and we KNOW two of them aren't going anywhere. So basically all we have to offer is Bobby Jackson, decent vet, Luther Head, extreme bust this season, Rafer, IMO he's decent, he produced pretty steady for the year, had some really good moments, some bad ones, but was relatively even I would say. Who else is expendable? Landry? Possibly. Brooks? Possibly. But none of these pieces are valuable enough to receive players of Artest or JR Smith's magnitude. JR may be a punk, but he's beastly.
Nearly all these references are related to the same nightclub incident. The only different incident was the trafic accident. I'm by no means condoning this kids actions. He had his license suspended 5 times. What were the reasons for the suspensions. Do they have anything to do with his ability to drive safely? That makes a difference. Even they were for speeding, or any other traffic violation, that situation happened and nothing can be done about it. No one seems to know all the facts around the night club incident and do you believe he's the only athlete to have a problem in a club? How many times has Barkley been accused of beating up drunken patrons in a club? What player has not had an disagreement with a coach? Once again we're talking about a 22 or 23 year old kid. How mature were any of us at that age. You simply don't throw away a talent like this kid. None of the things he's done on the court or in the locker room were any worse than what we've heard before. In fact I can guarantee you that similar or worse situations have happened on the Rocket's team during their championship years. I know this for a fact. All this being said, I am not giving the kid a pass for his bad behavior. I simply don't believe it's necessary to continue to dwell on what has happened in the past forever. What by the way has he done wrong since the incident prior to the season? The incident apparently occured before the season started. How was he during this season?
It can't technically be three trades because it doesn't work from Orlando's perspective as three trades. It's officially a single trade (which is how it's always been shown by the NBA). Breaking it into 3 deals from the Rockets (but not Magic) perspective is just a way for the Rockets to account for all of the salary. If it had been three actual trades, then Orlando would have had to either have cap space or an exception to cover Francis' entire contract. My response was to your statement where you said "... but you've got to know that you can't trade a player with a TE. That's pretty basic". That statement is incorrect and that's was I was correcting. If you now want to say that the proposed trade is illegal because there's not enough players involved, then that's fine, but that's different than your original statement.
Actually my statement is fine. I said you can't trade a player (singular) with a TE. That is true. With other players involved, as we've cited, there are ways to work around it. As for whether the McGrady trade was actually 3 separate trades, I guess it comes down to semantics. Just because it looks like a single trade from Orlando's perspective, doesn't mean it technically was a single trade. Personally, if a group of traded players isn't aggragated, I consider that multiple trades. Others may not.
The Tmac trade was technically three seperate trades. When we first acquired Mike James and Zendon Hamilton it was two seperate trades. It doesn't happen like that quite often, but it was the case in those trades due to rules regarding TPE's.
