Bulls and Pacers seriously considering trade...

According to MSNBC, the deal is done, and is going to be announced today. (I don´t know how to put the link)

 

Mercer is included?!!! I'm sorry, the Pacers are getting the best of this deal. With Miller and O'neal, they now have one of the top front courts in the league. And they have Bender, Harrington, Tinsley, Artest to build around for the future, to go along with Miller and Mercer. If this trade goes down, this team is loaded.

 

Chicago is giving up a lot, but this makes some degree of sense. Otherwise, Mercer would have been coming off the bench. The Bulls keep cap space for next year (maybe they can take Cato or Rice off our hands? wishful thinking!) Jamal Crawford can back up the shooting guard spot when he comes back (although I wouldn't be surprised to see him dealt at some time or another).

I'm a little surprised but you should see my Bulls-worshipping roommate (his e-mail address includes "23" and "MJ": you figure it out.) He loves Artest's "D" and hates the trade. But if the Bulls can make another move, they might turn out semi-decent.

 

When it was Rose, Best and Sundov for Miller, Artest and Oakley, I thought it favored Indiana too much. Now it's Rose and Best for Miller, Artest, Mercer and Ollie? Chicago is giving up way too much for the privilege to overpay Rose.

 

WOW, The Pacers look awesome, Finally Isaiah hands the reigns over to Jamaal Tinsley, But seriously, Mercer and Miller for Jalen Rose? Yet Another bone headed Jerry Krause tactic, The Pacers are gonna be awesome

C - Brad Miller
PF - Jermaine Oneal
SF - Austin Croshere
SG - Reggie Miller/Mercer
PG - Tinsley

 

Great deal for the Pacers. They get quality guys who are younger than the players they trade.

Chicago? Go figure. Idiots again. They trade a young all-star for a hschlr the year before (to get younger?), then trade 2 of their better all-around players (who happen to be young) plus another decent guy in Mercer for 2 guys past their prime. It is a ship of fools up their in Chicago.

I would have LOVED to get involved in an Artest & Miller deal. Would have offered Kenny, Cato + Toronto #1 for it. Besides, Kenny belongs in the East, I think he would consistently fair well there except against Oneal.

 

My feelings mimic a lot of yours----theres good and there's bad. I'm not at all concerned about Indiana because the Clippers were supposed to be the next all-everything when Brand the missing piece landed there and we see how that turned out.

We couldn't have gotten more for Miller/Artest/Mercer considering the salarys involved either. It was a max player or several scrubby players.

Artest was out of control, and it would be a long time (unless he finds a mentor like MJ) before he'll learn to harness his talents and become a complete player. Even then, he'd be Eddie Jones or Jalen Rose----never T-Mac, Kobe, or Vince.

The other two simply had no future with the team---Hassell is better than Mercer, and Curry will hold down the center spot.

Rose is the best scorer we've had in four years, and he can play PG too. This is a boon for the young guys---simply because we've had no one all season long who could feed the post. properly. Curry will benefit, Chandler will benefit, and Crawford has a major league talent to mentor him at both backcourt positions. Crawford and Rose in the backcourt are both 6'7---Eddie Robinson is 6'9, Chandler is 7'2 and Curry 6'11. All long and athletic.

It's a nice looking nucleous for the future, and we have some cap flexibility and a top 5 pick this year.

 

the clippers werent suppossed to be all everything. they were suppossed to be on the brink of the playoffs. And they are. After only half a year with Brand nonetheless. This deal could possibly make Indiana much better - you just never know.

First, Rose can also be "out of control," highly dependant on his relationship with his coach/team. Also, say Artest will "only be as talented" as Jalen Rose in a bad way, then go on to praise Rose. If they could both have the same talent level and both have head problems, what's the point trading the younger cheaper one for the older more expensive one?

I dont see how its a nice looking nucleus for the future. Neither Curry or Chandler have yet to prove that they will ever be anything more than what Miller was, if that and the Marcus Fizer pick has yet to turn out to be too great. I just dont see the great nucleus???

The cap flexibility is a positive, though, if the Bulls can do anything about it, as is the top 5 pick. But there last two drafts have been a bit suspect IMO. I'm not trying to ram on the Bulls or anything, but like Desert Scar, I just think the Bulls management is being dumb once again.

 

Some people just like to argue. :roll:

I don't see Rose as a headcase, his talent is polished and proven, and if you see Miller in Chandler and Curry then I know all I need to know about your basketball acumen.

gb

 

Rockets R Us-I told you the Bulls were gonna trade Artest...

The trade works out well for both teams. I think Rose can be somewhat of a cancer, but maybe a change of scenery will help him out, especially if he is given the role of point forward, much like Pippen was with the Bulls.

The only thing I wonder is what direction the Bulls are trying to go. It seems like Rose is a "bridge" until Curry and Chandler develop, if they do at all.

The Bulls will be a 35 win team next year, barring any major trades.

Too bad they can't find a way to unload Eddie "I'm a shooting guard" Robinson.

He is making like 6-7 mill per year, and is nothing better than a good backup SF.

Imagine this team with Brand and Rose.

You're talking a 50 win team.

 

There is no way Croshere starts at SF over Artest.

That starting lineup is a very non-athletic one, and Artest will be a nice shot in the arm for a team who lacks athleticism, since Harrington is out.

 

Oh...I think it's too early to call that. It's his first season as anything more than a backup, and he's been bothered by injuries. He's incredibly athletic and when he has played, he's shown flashes of being a difference maker.

Jury is still out.

 

I agree that he's a great athlete.

However, he hasn't shown me enough ball skills to warrant him being a starter.

I see him has a Jerome Williams-type energy guy, that teams can use OFF THE BENCH.

The question is, is that kind of guy worth 6-7 mill per year...

Maybe he can shut me up by showing the ability to put the ball on the floor, or by developing a good shot, but he is very very raw.

 

I think you misunderestimate how hard it is to win 50 games. A team with Oneal, Rose, Reggie Miller and other decent players could barely win half their games. A team with a healthy McDyess, Lafrez, and NVE could barely win half their games. A team with Brand and Rose + ultra young or just plain crappy players would be happy to get 35 or 40 wins, not 50.

 

Hey!

 

I said 50 wins in lieu of the Bulls playing in the East.

If the Nuggets had a healthy McDyess, La Frentz, and a non-b****y NVE, they win 50 in the East.

However, a non-b****y NVE does not exist, so you're theory is pretty futile.

The Bulls have a lot of solid role players right now. What they seriously lack is go-to guys who they can depend on creating easy scoring opportunities, as well as taking the game winning shots.

They would have no problem with that right now, if they had Rose and Brand.

Yes, the Bulls suck, but their talent is much better than their record would indicate.

I have commited suicide, and watched about 20-30 Bulls games (not in its entirety) and noticed that the Bulls problems offensively are very similar to the Rockets.

They are forced to take many bad shots because the shot clock becomes a negative factor.

With Rose or Brand, the Bulls would know where to send the ball to once they get set up on offense.

All year long, they were just passing it around waiting for someone to do something with it, and then they end up forcing a 20 ft fadeaway before the shot clock expires.

At the very least, the Bulls are a playoff team (.500) with Brand and Rose, in exchange for Chandler or Curry, and the guys they traded today.

 

I agree the West/East comparison is weak, and I I could go along with this (.500), but that is a lot different than a 50 win team. Again, if Rose, Miller, Oneal and better other players (remaining Pacers) are just below 500 this season in the East I can't imagine Rose and Brand and the rets of this year's Bulls being any better than 500 at this point. Not only are Oneal and Miller together clearly better than Brand (Brand and Oneal are very close by themselves) the other Indiana roll player are better at this point IMO.

 

While Artest is showing some improvement, I think he was the Bulls version of Kenny Thomas. In that the Bulls might have realized that Artest, at best is a #3 option on a good team, and that right now his stock is as high as it can be, as long as he's a Bull. And if the Bulls believed that, I agree with them. With Artest, the Bulls simply just striked when the iron was hot, and they were able to get a borderline All-Star to take over his position.

One thing I have to wonder about, is why the Bulls are keeping Oakley. I read in TSN, they want to avoid an "embarassing" situation by letting him go. I don't see how it helps the Bulls to keep a player who doesn't want to play in Chi, as well as giving a STARTING role to a player who won't be there next year. Just end both of your miseries and let Oakley go. It's better for him and it's better for the Bulls.

This trade is basically Rose + some cap space (Best is FA after the year I think) for 4 guys who had no real future with the Bulls.

The Bulls were able to get quality for quantity, something that doesn't hurt the Bulls at all, since they seemed to have logjams at every position but PG.

I don't think Rose will be able to help the Bulls 5 years down the road, when Chandler and Curry become solid players, but he will at least let the Bulls win more than 25 games.

The best part of the deal may not be getting Rose, but rather unloading Mercer, who is a very average SG, who is running out of teams to play for (he must have some kind of baggage).

Like I've said before Rose gives the Bulls a much needed creator.

If I'm Krause, the next thing I do is let Oakley win a cheap ring in LA, and find ANYONE who will take Eddie Robinson off my hands.

 

You're VASTLY overrating Reggie Miller if you think Miller + O'Neal are BETTER than Rose + Brand.

Brand gets a slight edge over O'Neal, while Rose gets a somewhat big edge over Mr. 1 Dimensional.

I will grant you that the Pacers have better bench talent, however factor in that there can only be 5 guys on the court at the same time, as well as the fact that Isiah seems to be underachieving if anything.

The whole East conference is underachieving except for NJ. The Bucks, Heat, Raptors, Pacers, Magic, Sixers...