I don't think anyone will argue most of those points, Jeff. However, I believe it is a small price to pay (allowing him to retire a Rocket) considering Dream's contributions. Which would you trade -- his lifetime contributions as a Rocket, or using his remaining salary to lure free agents? [This message has been edited by BlastOff (edited March 02, 2000).]
Jeff, I as much as anyone loves Olajuwon. I've watched him since his Phi Slama Jama days. And, as much as I'd like to see him go out gracefully, that $16 million he's making sure would look nice as cap dollars. That $16 mil (or whatever it is) is what the Rockets owe him for his years of dominant play. I don't think it's right to try and take that away now. For many many years Hakeem played well below what he was worth. He has been loyal to us, now let us be loyal to him. Let's face it. The business of professional basketball is winning. To win, you must have players that not only play on a high level, but do so consistently. You must also have players capable of playing the vast majority of the 82 games in a season. Your right. Everyone wants to win, but not everyone is going to win. Also, NBA players are not horses or dogs. They are people with hearts and souls, and they have an impact on people's lives. ---------------------------------------- heypartner, Sports stars are just celebrities. Who's going to give me that "Role Model" speech ... if you want to turn them into heros and give them more respect than a fireman deserves, then tell me how they have changed your life. How exactly do they grab you and make a difference? And how did that fireman change my life? Not to say a fireman shouldn't be a "role model", but that he's just doing his job, just like a professional basketball player. Don't sit there and say because we poke fun at a celebrity, we are jerks. Give me a soliloquoy of why Dream deserves your respect so much. I admire Hakeem for what he has been able to accompish, and how he has carried himself while doing it. He is not only a Black man in the United States, but he is also from a foreign country. (Overcoming the pitfalls that can come with just those two characteristics is enough to be a role model, but there's more.) Hakeem is one of the classiest players in the NBA. He's never got into trouble for drugs or with the law. (There's another reason to look up to him as a role model.) Unlike Barkley, (only given as an example because he has been mentioned already in this thread) I have never seen any sort of racism or racist remarks from Olajuwon. I don't dislike Barkley. I have actually gained a lot of respect for him since he's been here, but he has said some racist things. There's no denying that. Hakeem has played his career without being a loud mouth or a showboat. He has simply dominated his position. He chose to lead by example. (Another reason to look up to him. It teaches others that maybe they should lead by example.) I could go on. Do you need more than that? ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
I've already said it 10 times, once more shouldn't hurt. If Hakeem retires after this season do the rockets free up some cap space? No. Regardless of whether Hakeem plays next season or not, the rockets WILL count his full $16 mil salary against their cap. There are exceptions to this if the retirement is caused by a medical condition, but there is a waiting period of 2 years, and since 2000/2001 would be hakeems last year anyway, it is a moot point. Can the rockets and hakeem reach an agreement and buy-out the remainder of his contract? Yes, but whatever amount we agree to pay will count towards NEXT Seasons cap. To make the rockets EQUAL to next years cap, they would have to agree to pay hakeem only $5 mil of the $16 mil that is due him(see http://rocketdavo.tripod.com ). Hence, to get under the cap, we would realistically have to pay him less than that. Would that be a nice way to say thanks to the franchise's all time greatest player? Would any of you accept a deal like that? Argue that Hakeem should retire so he can go gracefully(which I disagree with vehemently anyway) but please stop suggesting that there is any realistic salary cap benefit. [This message has been edited by davo (edited March 02, 2000).]
DREAMer... I'll add something to my respect concerning Barkley: One can't confront racism like Barkley does without breaching our country's denial and exposing our hidden panel of pretext that racism doesn't exist. So, if addressing racism means you talk in racist terms, then Barkley does make racist remarks. I happen to think it is unavoidable and even healthy if ones intent is to raise the level of awareness of those hiding behind doilies of denial. DREAMer, I don't know if you meant to dismiss my respect of Barkley by saying he makes racist remarks and Hakeem doesn't. My respect is my belief. You aren't going to argue it away, and I'm certainly not going to try to challenge anyone's sincere respect for Hakeem. To answer your final question: Yes, in all honesty, I would enjoy hearing you go on...
Damn what a touchy subject. Yes, it seems we can all fantasize about the 16 million different ways we can use that cash that the 'old sack' is using up. But keep one thing in mind my fellow BBS bretheren. Its with a doubt that without that fallaway-jumpin, return-to-sender swatting, spin-movin 7-footin Nigerian named Hakeem we would not have those championship banners hanging at the old Compaq Center, right? And while Rudy Tomjanovich is a great coach on his own right, he would not have been able to pull off those inspiring championship repeats without the centerpiece of his beloved 'system'. Over the past 5 years we have marvelled at both Rudy T's and the Rockets organization knack of attracting top-notch free agents to Houston. In my opinion, it is safe to say that Rudy T built this positive reputation through the strength of those championship years Hakeem "the Dream" Olajuwon was so much part of. In an indirect yet obvious way, the opportunity to see the likes of Drexler, Barkley, Pippen, (as much as we hate him, he is -was- a quality pick-up)Anderson, and Francis in Rockets unis can largely be attributed to Olajuwon. Simply because he has played a large role in building ths organization reputation. So while Dream may not be the same Dream he once was, he has indirectly played a large part on the future of the Rockets, as well as its past. Azim da Dream ------------------ No guts, no glory, no brain, same story.
I'll add something to my respect concerning Barkley: One can't confront racism like Barkley does without breaching our country's denial and exposing our hidden panel of pretext that racism doesn't exist. So, if addressing racism means you talk in racist terms, then Barkley does make racist remarks. I happen to think it is unavoidable and even healthy if ones intent is to raise the level of awareness of those hiding behind doilies of denial. I'm not talking about the times Barkley tries to confront 'racism'. I'm talking about the times he makes blatantly racist remarks. Do you think someone has to be a racist to fight racism? DREAMer, I don't know if you meant to dismiss my respect of Barkley by saying he makes racist remarks and Hakeem doesn't. My respect is my belief. You aren't going to argue it away, and I'm certainly not going to try to challenge anyone's sincere respect for Hakeem. I wasn't trying to 'argue away' your feelings toward Barkley. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. As I stated in my previous post, "I have a lot of respect for Barkley." Respect than has only grown since he became a Rocket. I just don't agree with some of his tactics sometimes. You already have challenged my respect for the Dream. And you do it again in the the last section of this post. You might want to ask Clutch, but I think you can probably fit your whole post into your signature file. Then, we'd never forget you don't have a sense of humor when it comes to DREAM. Don't even try to act like 'humor' makes anything you say okay. If John Rocker comes out and says that he was just kidding, and everyone needs to relax it was just a big joke, would that make what he said okay? No, it wouldn't. So, don't try to dismiss attacks on Hakeem as just being a joke. To answer your final question: Yes, in all honesty, I would enjoy hearing you go on... How many reasons did you have to give to back up your admiration of Barkley? I've already given 4 to support my hero, but there's more: I admire Hakeem's loyalty. He's been a part of the Houston community ever since he played at the University of Houston. There were plenty of times during his career as a Rocket that he could've requested a trade. I mean sheesh, if all the NBA is, is about winning then why didn't Hakeem leave Houston when the Rockets were terrible? Why didn't he request a trade? Why didn't he handcuff the team with a giant contract ala Juwon Howard? In a world where so many fathers and so many pro athletes don't take responsibility for their children, Hakeem did. No, Hakeem did not marry the mother of his daughter. Yes, they did split up. But, has Hakeem treated his daughter like Dr. J? Vernon Maxwell? Or any of the other "Dead-beat Dads" in that Sports Illustrated article? He made a mistake. But, he has never denied her existence or ingored her. Hakeem's 'Ex' has never come out and denounced Hakeem for being a horrible dad or neglecting their daughter. One year on St. Patrick's Day, sometime ago my friends and I went to Biroporetti's (sp?) and guess who comes walking in? Hakeem Olajuwon. Normally we'd have gone over and introduced ourselves, but he was with... guess who? His daughter, his daughter's mother, and his daughter's grandmother. Why was he there? Were they still romantically invovled? No. He was there with his daughter as a dad. So, I guess this could be categorized as taking responsibilities for ones actions, which is an admirable quality. When Hakeem came into the NBA as a rookie he scored over 20pts a game, grabbed 12 rebounds, blocked over 2.5 shots. So, what did he do? Did he slack off, and ride that great rookie season for the rest of his career? No, he worked hard and improved year after year. He shot 61.3% on free throws that year, and steadily improved for five years, until he became a very reliable FT shooter. What I admire about all this is even though Hakeem was blessed with enormous amounts of talent, he still worked hard. He didn't expect anyone to do it for him. This is the reason he is as great as he is. The best of the best work hard to improve. Their are a number of talented players who don't work hard, and just rely on their God given talent (ala D. Coleman). It's getting harder to think of things, so I'll stop here for fear that I'm writing some sort of English, Sociology, or Psychology paper for you. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem. [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited March 02, 2000).]
Trading him wouldn't solve the problem. I'm suggesting that he retire at the end of the season. And, of course I wouldn't trade what he has meant to the city and the team for players or free agents, but that is history - something that cannot be taken away. ------------------ "Society always honors its live conformists and its dead non-conformistis."
Hakeem may not be opposed to a buyout of some sort at the end of the season. It would be great if that could be worked out. After everything, I couldn't stand to see him retire in another team's jersey. Just wouldn't be right to me. [This message has been edited by BlastOff (edited March 02, 2000).]
Thx DREAMer, I wasn't dismissing your respect in my first post. I had no way of quantifying you level of respect except through your user-id. Now I know. It always enriches posts when we state personal positive perspectives, to go with any challenges or bashes of other posters. I'm glad you shared the story at Biroporetis. His daughter's mother is the woman I knew at Rice, that I alluded to earlier. Dream very much hurt her by making her a single mother. My feelings (although I have nothing on which to base this) is his period of reflection that led to his renewed faith in his religion, came out of realizing that he has a daughter and an old girlfriend who he hurt. Now that woman calls him the best father she could ever expect for her daughter. Even though she took Hakeem's daughter to LA so she could attend law school and settled there, Hakeem was still the best. I have tremendous respect for that. Hakeem is a dream when it comes to finding inner peace in being a giving parent. Cheers DREAM...thanks again for the story! [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited March 03, 2000).]
With Respect...... ......the most amazing thing about all of this is that the person you are speaking about would: - first, laugh about all the hoopla made about some fan generated remarks made about him on a BBS. He knows the difference between serious discussion and sports banter. - secondly, he may be be appalled to learn that some people feel he is god-like. That he should be treated "differently", more reverently, the "same but seperate" idiom. He is very sensitive about worship. - lastly, he may even ask that you not express angst and anger with one another over an obvious superfulous difference of opinion. This is all my opinion as I am not Hakeem. I'm glad too. I would never be able to respect the crown of godhead that some would offer.
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't view him as "god-like" or a "godhead". To me he's a 'role model' and a 'hero'. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
Popeye, I'll go crawl into my hole of public obscurity with knowledge that celebrities laugh at their fans. thx
Dream quit on the Rockets one year and the team suspended him, he demanded to be traded, said he would never play for the Rockets again..etc...etc... Then he had a turnaround. Yes Dream is awesome and inspiring, but at one point he was selfish, and contraversial. The "quit on the team" part up in my first graph is backed up by a tape recorded conversation in Steve Patterson's office. Dream asked to renew his contract, the Rockets refused, and Dream said ok..then my leg hurts and I can't play. He was suspended for 10 games I think and the problems went on until a trip to Japan where Dream got to talk it over with Charlie Thomas. Dream WAS a GREAT GREAT player, but he is only human, and the man he is now is FAR better then the man he was previously. DaDakota
That is true. That was Akeem. He was angry w/ selfish pride. He knew it and remarks about it. Now he is religious. Now he is humble. Now he is Hakeem.
Heypartner You wrote: "....I'll go crawl into my hole of public obscurity with knowledge that celebrities laugh at their fans...... thx " Well,I personally don't know what is more obscure than the apparent relationship (real or imagined) between a fan and a celebrity. However, without attempting to sound too critical, or making this thread even more fragile than it is, my guess is that the fan/celebrity relationship lies somewhere between these two opposing views: - between the celebrity's (a) affection for the fan similiar to a cute puppy dog, and (b) his/her contemptuous self absorbtion with the spotlight. - and, the fan's (a) transference of god-like reverence to the celebrity and, (b) the fan's growing awareness that the celebrity is just a person who happens to excel in some aspect of performance. Or, of course we all could be full of it .... ............but who cares
popeye, do you get the feeling that this fragile thread could explode into mass irreconcilable differences. you should start a new one about the celebrity fan thing. But maybe after the season when we are all bored. i'm down for that. that would be fun.
Agreed DREAMer. That is exactly why I refused to even acknowledge the post. I figured why give the poster more ammo to fire back with. I saw this topic and started thinking... From my observations and conversations with other sports fans(not just Rockets) in Houston, that there is a real $hitty attitude shown by most of the so-called fans in Houston. I could not tell you how many times I ask people where I work(an upscale sports bar) what they think about where the Rockets are headed in the offseason and in future years. I usually get the response "F*uck the Rockets!" It makes me sick because these were the same people jumping and cheering when they won this city 2 championships!! In an era where sports fans constantly b**** about team loyalty, where is the loyalty in Houston??? by the way, this was in no way targeting anyone on this BBS thank you
