Well as someone who has a little experience smoking bud and getting drunk let me state the everyone(especially me) is better off when I'm stoned. Not once have I tried to start a fight stoned. Not once have I called my ex-wife stoned, only to have her call me an ******* then hang-up. Not once have I driven my car through my neighbors yard stoned. I have done all these things and worse when drunk though. Heres some info that can be found at http://www.mpp.org mar1juana Prohibition FACTS 2001 Very few Americans had even heard about mar1juana when it was first federally prohibited in 1937. Today, nearly 70 million Americans admit to having tried it.[1] According to government-funded researchers, the perceived availability of mar1juana among high school seniors has remained high and steady despite decades of a nationwide drug war. With little variation, every year about 85% consider mar1juana "fairly easy" or "very easy" to obtain.[2] There have been more than 12 million mar1juana arrests in the United States since 1970, including a record 734,498 arrests in 2000. About 88% of all mar1juana arrests are for possession -- not manufacture or distribution.[3] Every comprehensive, objective government commission that has examined the mar1juana phenomenon throughout the past 100 years has recommended that adults should not be criminalized for using mar1juana.[4] Cultivation of even one mar1juana plant is a federal felony. Lengthy mandatory minimum sentences apply to a myriad of offenses. For example, a person must serve a five-year mandatory minimum sentence if federally convicted of cultivating 100 mar1juana plants -- including seedlings or bug-infested, sickly plants. This is longer than the average sentences for auto theft and manslaughter![5] A one-year minimum prison sentence is mandated for "distributing" or "manufacturing" controlled substances within 1,000 feet of any school, university, or playground. Most areas in a city fall within these "drug-free zones." An adult who lives three blocks from the edge of a university is subject to a one-year mandatory minimum for selling an ounce of mar1juana to another adult -- or even growing one mar1juana plant in his or her basement.[6] Approximately 60,000 mar1juana offenders are in prison or jail right now.[7] According to the organization Stop Prisoner Rape, "290,000 males were victimized in jail every year, 192,000 of them penetrated. ... Victims are more likely to be young, small, non-violent, first offenders, middle-class. ..."[8] Civil forfeiture laws allow police to seize the money and property of suspected mar1juana offenders -- charges need not even be filed. The claim is against the property, not the defendant. The property owner must then prove that the property is "innocent" -- and indigents have no right to appointed legal counsel. Enforcement abuses stemming from forfeiture laws abound.[9] MPP estimates that the war on mar1juana consumers costs taxpayers more than $9 billion annually.[10] Many patients and their doctors find mar1juana a useful medicine as part of the treatment for AIDS, cancer, glaucoma, multiple sclerosis, and other ailments. Yet the federal government allows only eight patients in the United States to use mar1juana as a medicine, through a program now closed to all new applicants. Federal laws treat all other patients currently using medicinal mar1juana as criminals, the same as recreational users. Doctors are presently allowed to prescribe cocaine and morphine -- but not mar1juana. Nearly 80% of U.S. voters support medical access to mar1juana.[11,12] Organizations that have endorsed medical access to mar1juana include the AIDS Action Council, American Academy of Family Physicians, American Public Health Association, California Medical Association, California Society of Addiction Medicine, Lymphoma Foundation of America, National Association of People With AIDS, National Nurses Society on Addictions, the New England Journal of Medicine, and others. A few of the many editorial boards that have endorsed medical access to mar1juana include: Boston Globe; Chicago Tribune; Miami Herald; New York Times; Orange County Register; USA Today. Since 1996, a majority of voters in Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, the District of Columbia, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington state have voted in favor of ballot initiatives to remove criminal penalties for seriously ill people who grow or possess medicinal mar1juana. Recent studies show that the vast majority of Americans favor treatment and education over law enforcement. By 53% to 34%, Americans view drug abuse as a public health problem best handled by prevention and treatment programs, rather than a crime problem best handled by the criminal justice system.[13] "Decriminalization" involves the removal of criminal penalties for possession of mar1juana for personal use. Small fines may be issued (similar to traffic tickets) but there is no arrest, incarceration, or criminal record. mar1juana is presently decriminalized in 11 states -- California, Colorado, Maine, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, and Oregon. In these states, cultivation and distribution remain criminal offenses. Decriminalization saves a tremendous amount in enforcement costs. California saves $100 million per year.[14] A government-sponsored study comparing mar1juana consumption rates in states where mar1juana has been decriminalized to rates in states where mar1juana possession remains a crime found that "decriminalization has had virtually no effect either on the mar1juana use or on related attitudes and beliefs about mar1juana use among American young people."[15] A federally funded Research Triangle Institute study of Drug Abuse Resistance Education found that D.A.R.E. students were no less likely to use drugs than students not involved in the program. The authors concluded, "D.A.R.E. could be taking the place of other, more beneficial drug use curricula that adolescents could be receiving."[16] The arbitrary criminalization of tens of millions of Americans who consume mar1juana results in a large-scale lack of respect for the law and the entire criminal justice system. mar1juana prohibition subjects users to extraneous health hazards: Adulterants, contaminants and impurities -- mar1juana purchased through criminal markets is not subject to the same quality control standards as are legal consumer goods. Illicit mar1juana is oftentimes adulterated with much more damaging substances; contaminated with pesticides, herbicides, or fertilizers; and/or infected with molds, fungi, or bacteria. Inhalation of hot smoke -- One of the more well-established hazards of mar1juana consumption is the fact that the inhalation of burning vegetable matter is bad for the respiratory system. Laws that prohibit the sale or possession of paraphernalia reduce the likelihood that individuals will smoke through devices which cool and filter the smoke. Because vigorous enforcement of the mar1juana laws forces the roughest, toughest criminals to take over mar1juana trafficking, prohibition causes violence and increases predatory crime. Prohibition invites corruption within the criminal justice system by giving officials easy, tempting opportunities to accept bribes, steal and sell mar1juana, and plant evidence on innocent people. mar1juana prohibition creates a mixed drug market, which puts mar1juana consumers in contact with hard-drug dealers. Regulating mar1juana -- e.g., allowing adults to grow their own -- would separate mar1juana from cocaine, heroin, and other hard drugs. Because mar1juana is typically used in private, trampling the Bill of Rights is a routine part of mar1juana-law enforcement, e.g., drug dogs, urine tests, phone taps, government informants, curbside garbage searches, military helicopters, infrared heat detectors.
Pimp: It's an inconvenience. I've been throught it... It's a pain in the ass, but it's still just an inconvenience. Not worth a million dollars of your and my money. Grease me up with castor oil, wrap me in celophane, and stick me in a sauna. I might do that for a million bucks, because I could very possibly die. But... Lock me up and humiliate my family? Sh*t, just gimme wages lost and send me home. I should point out that I've smoked weed more times than I can possibly count. I lost track of my acid count at well over a thousand hits (great fodder here for those who think I'm crazy). I have done coke. I have shot coke. I have smoked crack. I used to X at least once a week back in the day. I do not condone any of these things (and I will never touch drugs again), but I do think that all - all - drugs should be legalized. And regulated. And taxed. That is the only way to put the organized criminal syndicates out of business. It is the only way to prevent overdoses due to bad reactions from embalming fluid dipping. It is the only way to make drugs harder for teens to get than alcohol (drugs are much easier to get). It is also a huge cash cow for the government in the short term. Lower our taxes... The Drug War is our Vietnam. If people like glynch would focus their energies on that, instead of wasting them on popular wars like Iraq and Afghanistan, then they might actually get something accomplished - and in an area which they claim to care about. We are never going to eradicate drug use. No more likely than eradicating alcohol abuse. The best we can hope for is to control it - and you don't do that with force.
While I don't see anything wrong with a single person lighting up a joint in their home, the whole industry of how it got there is what frightens me. While that person is not harming anyone (seemingly), lets examine how the weed got there. The people that grow the weed, transport it and sell it are evil. Every $20 spent on a sack, ends up financing people that kill. Somewhere along the lines of distribution, there is the guy that sells 1000 lbs a week and uses violence and intimidation to carry on their business. The big distributers are the real problem, and every $20 sack is just aiding their effort. Most likely, the 1000 lb guy is also involved in other drugs. By this time you are talking about some very evil people. THe guys that grow their own in a home may be the exception. But after some time, and as gardens grow, these people become very similar to the large distributers using violence, indimidation, and murder to continue operation. I don't drink or use drugs anymore, but years of working in the music and club biz, I have seen the evil that is just steps away from the guy smoking a $20 sack. Make no mistake, every $20 for a sack eventually winds up into the hands of coke, pills, X, and herion dealers and murderers.
This is just ridiculous. I've met hundreds of people that have grown herb and many of them are some of the more peaceful people i've ever met. Sure thing, Colby, there are many people in the drug trade that are very evil, but you're statement is plain ridiculous. There are many people that are evil in the oil business or who sell diamonds or involved any trade that can make you $. It's the money that's the root of all evil, Colby. It's the money.
I'd still vote for you! It's not your experience, but our mutual feelings on the subject. Personally, I'm not anywhere near the person I truly am when buzzed. Basically, I just want to pour ketchup on my doorstep and eat my way to bed... RR
Are you really comparing the food and clothing business to the drug trade? Murder, indimidation, kidnaping, bribes, violence, and anything else you have to do to keep your business going are not standard operating procedures for the industries you mentioned. I thought I made my opinion on home grown clear. The problem with homegrown is that it is only a matter of time before someone's personel garden turns into a major operation that ends up encouraging crime. After awhile of growing a few plants, you start to realize you could grow a $20k garden and serve the same time for what you have now. It's like the Hooters to dancer to w**** argument. You push the envelope a little further each time. Next thing you know, you have 2 rooms going 10 months a year grossing $100k. That must be the biggest "decent" size plant ever. Growing pot is not as easy as everyone thinks. As far a legalizing it, I'm very split on that. The occasional pot smoker will most likely never get caught as long as they stay away from dealing. But the pothead eventually falls into the dealing for free pot, then dealing for money, and so on. The hardest part of me to figure out is what to do about people driving under the influence. Untill a reliable methode of determination is available, what do you do? And don't give me that crap that you drive better stonned.
Colby : Everything you've said about drugs in this thread could also have been said about alcohol during prohibition.
You have a point, but this isn't part of the ENTIRE drug industry. And, frankly, bribes, intimidation and even violence and murder have occurred in all kinds of industries as a way to keep them afloat. That's a HUGE stretch to make. Not everyone decides the best way to earn a living is to grow weed. It is not an easy business despite the income potential. My wife works in the garden all the time and I can assure you it is not an easy job. It is very hard work. Your scenario sounds more like a Cheech and Chong movie than reality. Second, let's say you did grow and sell weed. How exactly does that encourage crime beyond the simple crime of selling mar1juana? I have known lots of people who smoke and none of them had to carry a gun or rob a convenience store to protect themselves when buying or support their habit. It's one thing to suggest that a crack house creates ancillary crime. It's another thing to say mar1juana farming does the same. Hooters to dancer to w****??? Your suggestion is that women who work at Hooters are really just one step away from prostituting themselves for money? Again, a very LARGE stretch. This is not based on any fact available. Every person I know who smokes pot has NEVER been a dealer and has never even considered the possibility. Again, you are stretching reason here by a pretty long shot. I've known guys that smoke every single day and have since they were kids and they've never even come close to dealing. No one drives better stoned, but check the facts. The number of people who are involved in accidents as a result of alcohol and narcotic substances surpasses mar1juana by leaps and bounds. To take it a step further, there is a much more serious problem when it comes to abuse or driving under the influence and that is as a result of prescription narcotics. I read a report last fall that said prescription drug abuse was the fastest growing form of abuse in America growing at approximately 5 times the speed of illegal drugs and alcohol. And those are LEGAL prescriptions. Everyone should be concerned about drug abuse and smoking weed isn't very good for you, but to compare it to other drugs or even alcohol isn't really being factual.
Jeff, Alcohol is legal, of course the number of accidents is going to be higher. I concur that Pot should be at least considered to be legalized. Just make the driving under the influence laws tougher. Driving Drunk or stoned is a HUGE crime. DaDakota
Da: I agree. I'm just saying that, if you look at DMV stats, the rate of accidents for DUI alchohol vs. DUI mar1juana is vastly different. The reason is that stoned people have different driving issues than drunk. It doesn't mean they aren't dangerous. It just means their level of impairment is different from alcohol. I read a really good story about this in Time magazine at least 5 or 6 years ago. They reported on a study that showed the average stoned person was much less likely to drive than the average drunk person and that those who drove stoned were more likely to drive below the speed limit and stay off of major highways. The exact opposite was true of alcohol. Part of the effect of mar1juana is creating paranoia and the feeling that you are LESS safe. The exact opposite effect is true of alcohol. The study concluded that, while it wasn't safe to drive drunk OR stoned, the chances of a stoned person even getting pulled over were remote because they weren't likely to put themselves in that situation.
