I have nothing personal against Nash at all. I think he is very intelligent, respectful, and not like most professional athletes. I just hate the way reality gets distorted by the media, marketing, etc to the point that Steve Nash is an NBA icon, while Tmac is an NBA albatross. It sucks and I was just hoping to get a good conversation going with someone I respect on the board (like you) to change my mind, or at least help me understand why the NBA loves Steve Nash and hates Tmac.
Nash has a team with a lot more talent than he current rockets. But yet the rockets are the ones with the better record. Nash is no doubt a good player, and he can elevate other player's game. But that is only if the player can be complimented by nash. Marion, Stoudamire, Diaw are all good consistent players who can be benefited because they can elevate the game by themself. The Rockets however, do not have many players who are talented like the suns. However, they can still win more games than the Suns because the most of the load has been on McGrady's shoulders. That is what makes McGrady more valuable than Nash. Nash can elevate other players but he carry his team alone. There is only so much Nash could do before his passing games stops working, hence the Sun's record. McGrady brings in versatility to the house and gives out open shots due to his versatility. He also have a lesser version of Steve Nash's senses. Steve Nash senses + versatility = One Hella player. This is why Mcgrady has to stay healthy. He can elevate the games of others as well, that is if the players can elevate their own game when given the chance.
Fair enough, it just seems so random....... Tmac gets tossed around by the media because of the way he presents himself......."It is on me" ...... Nash is more stoic and honestly, if Tmac had been out of the first round, your comparison would be more apt. If you are saying Nash has had better players around him....then you are 100% correct.....but Tmac has had enough to advance at least once, and had had commanding leads in 3 series and failed to lead his team to even one series victory. The difference is in the ability to close out....to me, Tmac has proven to NOT be a leader whereas Nash has proven TO be a leader. DD
Phoenix Suns record 2003-2004(with Amare & Marion) season: 29-53 Phoenix Suns record 2004-2005 season: 62-20 Phoenix Suns record 2005-2006 season(With no Amare, Johnson, or Richardson): 54-28 Not the MVP of the Suns? Not a great player? Are people really that dumb? It isn't Nash's fault that the Suns didn't win a title.
Isn't getting out of the first round usually the hardest for the lower seeded teams? It's not like the 8th team plays the 7th team in the first round. About Nash and Mcgrady comparisons: Maybe it's because the NBA is recruiting more international players and wants to reach more international fans and Nash is a better one to advertise than McGrady. It's like why Yao doesn't get bashed like McGrady?
All I know is Tmac managed to get the Rockets a better regular season record and just as far in the playoffs this year BY HIMSELF. Nash had Stoudemire and Shaq and Raja Bell and Grant Hill and Diaw and Barbosa and still nearly go swept. Nash has had multiple All-Stars next to him in Dallas and Phoenix his entire career, but has nothing to show for it other than a couple of 1st and 2nd round playoff series victories. Hell, even Barkley, Patrick Ewing and Karl Malone have at least one Finals appearance to their name when they were the unquestioned best players on those teams. If Nash is closer to a true MVP like Kobe than to a loser like McGrady, as you contend, shouldn't he have at least sniffed a shot at a ring by now playing on all those playoff teams with all that supporting talent? Unless those teams didn't win because the real MVPs (Dirk, Amare) just weren't good enough and Nash has been the supporting talent all along, ALA McGrady? I'm just sayin.......
The Suns don't have as talented a team as some of you are making it out to be. They have two all-stars in Nash and Amare. Raja Bell and Leandro Barbosa are quality players, but neither are anything more than role players. Grant Hill is nothing more than a role player either at this point. Their roster contains Brian Skinner, Eric Piatkowski, Sean Marks, Alando Tucker, D. J. Strawberry, Linton Johnson, & Gordan Giricek. What a great roster they have. They gave up a lot of their talent when the traded Marion for a rich man's Eric Dampier. They would have plenty of talent, if they didn't sell first round picks.
Yes, Nash is an All-Star. Just like BJ Armstrong, Horace Grant, Tom Gugliotta and a ton of other schmucks who had nice careers. I am saying that he is not, never was, and never will be an MVP player or Hall-of-Fame player. And the fact he has 2 MVPs is a disgrace to guys like Dream, Shaq, Kobe, KG or any of the other true legends who managed to only win 1 MVP. If you don't agree, fine, but I started this with the idea of finding a good argument to prove me wrong. Still waiting....
With your argument contingent on Nash's inability to make it to the finals, you mention KG in an argument. Are you kidding me? I think you may need to pay attention to what you are saying.
I did. Team sucks without him. Contender with him. Pointed it out to you already. You just seem to ignore what is put up in front of you. If Nash did not deserve those MVPs, who did?
No, they are not that dumb, just biased. Let's also remember he took the no Amare, no Johnson team to the Western Conference finals. Again, he took a rag tag group with no player over 6'9 to game 6 of the WCF!!! On top of what you said, Nash's efficiency and +/- and such were phenomenal his MVP years. I do think he has slipped some, and he worn down more this year. Unfortunately for him he doesn't play for a Popovich or Phil Jackson who understands the value of developing and using the bench to keep your best players with lots of gas for the 4th quarter. As for ripping him for getting torn up for Parker, maybe the Suns should preach interior defense and get someone else to guard him. Lot's of other great offensive players (Barkley, Magic) had times of being exploited on the other end--a coach and team should do something different. Further, even great defensive players (Robinson) get had sometimes if left alone on other great offensive players, maybe the coach should play it differently. IMO Nash at his peak (about a 3 year period that ended last year) was the 2nd or 3rd best PG I have seen (watching since about the early 80s). Certainly Magic was the best at his peak--by a wide margin. Probably Isiah 2nd, Nash 3rd. Stockton was great longer and will go down as the better player than Nash for that reason, but even at his peak he had Karl Malone there (the real go to option) and wasn't the offensive force Nash was. Kidd and Payton were far inferior offensive player. That more than made up for the fact these two were all league defenders.
Grant Hill was injured in the playoffs. Diaw is not very good. The Suns played a better team in the playoffs this year. Nash is 34 now and honestly declining from where he was as an MVP. They had the best record in the West when they traded for Shaq. They were the 6th seed in the end. Shaq is the reason they didn't make it out of the playoffs. You make no sense arguing that because of what happened this year, it shows the fraud Steve Nash was as an MVP 3 years ago. I spat at you stats showing why Nash was MVP, when you claim he wasn't even MVP on his own team. All you do is spit out words, with nothing to back you up. How sad.[/QUOTE] Still, that Suns team has way more talent than the rockets and that was their worst team of recent history. Nash hasn't really shown any decline, he has played actually better this year than he did the first year he won the MVP (by far the single worst MVP season of all time). As i have said many times before it is more a factor of perception. Tmac was supposed to be as good as Kobe but he has fallen short. Nash is short white kid who came from Canada and wasn't highly scouted. He is a much better story and therefore he gets alot of praise. It is not really a question to me that Mcgrady has had much better individual seasons than Nash's best. Chris Paul is already far better than Nash has ever been. Why didn't he win MVP? Still, Tmac would get alot of praise if he were to win a few playoff series'. It is just really hard to judge Tmac's career when he hasn't ever had a decent shot at winning big. I just don't get why someone like KG gets so much praise when he has always been in similar situations.
I think if Kerr hadn't screwed the pooch and traded Marion for Shaq the Suns would still be playing and as the number 1 seed. DD
Why would someone bother arguing points when you are obviously so biased? You aren't even open to someone rationalizing with you. What the heck is the point?
Nash is the Ewing of the 2000's. Of all of the players that played since he has been in the league: Gary Payton, Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, John Stockton,and Allen Iverson (when he played PG sometimes) have all been better than he ever was. He does alot for his team but it isn't just something that started this year with Tony Parker. Every season no matter who he is holding they have a big night compared to what they usually have. For all he does on offense he negates a big chunk of that by being the worst defensive starting PG and it is not just that he is bad at it. He doesn't even try.
Oh sick don't get my hopes up...steve nash on the rockets would be devestating with the craftiness of scola the real inside presence of Yao and the utility of Tmac.....Look at the suns and think if boris diaw had the skill of tmac passing and scoring how complete they would have been. Now think of rafer turning into nash how easy Tmacs and Yaos job would be if only...
