I'll tell you what. If the Grizzlies trade Mike Miller for Bobby Jackson or a BJax equivalent player THIS summer...I'll donate $50 to the Tip Jar. I am that confident they'll get more than Houston has to offer. Forget what you read about Heisley. That fact is a team can NOT cut salary indefinitely. There are rules on how many players you have to have on a roster and a minimum total salary level for those players. Right now, Miller and Darko top the list at $9m and $7m respectively. They'll deal Darko before Miller.
I suggest you go back and reread as to when did i say T-Mac for Wade was going to happen because you misread it. Knicks are a disfunctional organization right now and Walsh has always had on his mind making the move for T-Mac #5 pick which would be Bayless would be Morey's agenda to upgrade the position for the future. There is alot more problems with them that is beyond what meets the eye that they have a Luxary tax issue. Its not about their roster is more about puting fans in the seats than anything. New York dont even need picks they have a different kind of issue is all im saying owner probably has it on his mind he is losing too much money on a team who cant even make the playoffs.
People are knocking Head, but Head is good at what he does. Last year he hit a million 3's. Why? Because Yao was relatively healthy. Where Luther struggles is when he's being relied to be a ballhandler, and that's where he gets into trouble. What the Rockets need is health. 52 wins a year ago, 55 wins this year. A healthy Rockets bunch, and this team can go places.
Gater, you're absolutely right about us not getting Miller. But you're wrong about what the Grizzlies' financial situation. Teams can't cut salary indifinitely, but Memphis doesn't have to worry about that. Portland will actually have a lower payroll than Memphis after next season ($19 mil), but requested waivers on Darius Miles anyway. If any team were willing to take on Brian Cardinal's contract, Miller would be gone by now. Memphis isn't trying to get capspace, they're simply shedding payroll. Picks are a cheaper option and they aren't winning: Miller has zero value to them.
I don't have to. I read it like 8 times the first time in an attempt to understand what all you were trying to say. Your "sentences" are often confusing as all hell. I think it considerably more likely that you 'miswrote' it. Where are you getting this information? I know Clutch mentioned that trading T-Mac to NY for Marbury's contract and their first round pick, but I haven't seen it anywhere in the media. How do YOU know that Walsh has "always had his mind on making the move for T-Mac"? I've seen no evidence of this. If you have access to an insider source. Tell us that. For that matter, how do you know what Morey's agenda is? I don't know if you think you're speculating and just poorly expressing your opinions or what, but the claim you're making is that Walsh wants and has always wanted T-Mac and that Morey fully intends to trade T-Mac to NY for a top five pick. That's not speculation. That's not discussing possibilities. You are making claims. And you didn't answer my question. WHERE ARE YOU GETTING YOUR INFO? I think you're passing on message board speculation as fact. This seems to clearly be the case with the case of T-Mac to NY for Marbury and their #1. I think you took an idea Clutch talked about and are passing it on as if it is an inevitability. That's pretty ridiculous. Are you serious? The Knicks would have to be involved in a child p*rnography ring for there to be more problems with them than meets the eye. Their salary situation has met everyones eye. Their spoiled half-assed roster full of unprofessional players has met everyones eye. Their losing culture. Isiah's sexual harassment situation. The feud between Marbury and Isiah. Curry and Randolph being fat under-achievers who have never even heard of defense. Randolph and Nate Robinson nearly fighting on the sidelines.The idiocy of their owner. On and on and on and on. We all know about it. They are one of the most highly covered franchises in the league. That said, putting asses in seats has never been a problem for NY. Their averages for this season aren't out yet, but last season they averaged about 18 thousand people per game, which is about 1300 people more per game than the Rockets. Besides, a big name isn't enough to improve attendance in NYC. You need to win. Actually, when you have cap issues, picks are exactly what you need. Talented lottery picks are the most cost effective contracts in the league. Further, James Dolan, the owner of the Knicks, is a ridiculously wealthy moron. The Knicks are essentially his toy train. He wants them to win, but I doubt he even cares all that much if they're profitable. Hell, the Yankees take losses in revenue. In NY, that just doesn't even matter. It's all about winning. I'm not saying they wouldn't make that trade. Maybe they would. They certainly want to be rid of Marbury. Again, what I'm really questioning is where you got your information and the manner in which you present it - as if you have insider information.
What the Rockets need more than anything else is at least one freakin' perimeter player that can GET TO THE RIM game in and game out. We also need another consistent outside threat that is not a liability defensively when he is on the court. It would be perfect to get a legit PG that can take it to the rack because we could kill two birds with one stone but it doesn't have to be. Believe it or not, this team could survive with an average PG if we have another perimeter scorer that gets more of his points in the paint or at the free throw line. The fact is that this team, as constructed, lives and dies by the jumpshot, especially when Yao is out. We have no balance in our backcourt. Our perimeter players are all primarily shooters and, collectively, not very good shooters. That is why Yao is the most critical asset to this team, even though T-Mac is clearly the most talented. He gives us at least one more way to score points. Every recent championship team had at least one of each of the following two components, in addition to all the other things that make up a great team (good role players, depth, etc...): 1. A perimeter player that is really good at breaking down defenses and getting to the basket where they can finish or get to the line. 2. A dominant big man. We have the big man but we don't have any guards that can consistently get to the basket when outside shots aren't falling. You need to have that kind of player to finish games down the stretch and to win playoff series. The lack of this kind of player is a big reason why Houston often has difficulty winning close games down the stretch. I'm not saying you don't need guys to knock down outside shots, but you have to have shooters and slashers if you want to have a championship-caliber backcourt. If we can get at least one quality guard that can penetrate, this offense will take flight next season. Add another shooter, and Adelman will be drooling on himself. It would be great to have a truly versatile offense with outside shooters, slashers and a dominant post player. We have plenty of role players in Battier, Scola, Landry, Brooks, etc... Sure, we could use another big body, a better PG, more good shooters, etc... but, in my opinion, our single BIGGEST NEED is a perimeter player that can finish at the basket. If he is a PG, great. If he can also hit 3s, great. As long as he can get to the basket and hit free throws, the Rockets will have taken a huge step forward.
That Marbury and the #5 for McGrady is a bunch of nonsense. No way McGrady gets moved unless his relationship with Adelman and Morey deteriorates really badly after the playoffs. It's just not gonna happen. Besides, we gain NOTHING in that deal. Bayless - McGrady is a downgrade. I have always liked Maggette's game, going to the hoop relentlessly, drawing a ton of fouls. He is a very efficient scorer. However, I do question his bball iq and he doesn't seem to play defense worth a cr.. Just not sure he really fits without causing our defense to become a black hole to the paint. Point guards possibly available for trade or sign and trade or free agent signing that may help us: 1. Kirk Hinrich 2. Ben Gordon 3. Chris Duhon 4. Marcus Williams 5. T.J. Ford 6. Ramon Sessions 7. Jason Williams (don't flame me, he could replace Rafer for pennies if we can trade Rafer) Point guards that are available that we should not be interested in: 1. Poisenbary 2. BDiddy (too much dough) 3. Mo Williams (too much dough) We should be talking to: 1. Chicago about Hinrich and Gordon 2. Milwaukee about Sessions 3. NJ about a possible deal for either one of RJ or VC, and Marcus Williams, and Boki for a package of Battier, BJax, Luther, and other expirings. 4. Toronto to see if they will take BJax and Luther for T.J. Ford, provided we can trade Rafer somewhere. 5. Duhon's agent if we trade Rafer 6. Jason Williams' agent if we trade Rafer My picks are Hinrich, Gordon, and Sessions. But if we trade for Hinrich, Gordon, or T.J. Ford, or any other high-priced point, we've got to find a place to trade Rafer. We can't have that much money wrapped up in the point guard spot. So, really the key to the offseason is can we move Rafer and what can we get for him? Will somebody throw us some expirings? Or can we combine Rafer with Shane and get an upgrade at the 3, maybe a bigger deal with Miami involving Shane, BJax, Rafer, and other expirings for Marion and Marcus Banks??? Bottom line is: We really need to move Rafer to give us more dollars to spend at the point guard spot. And if we don't move Rafer, and we don't bring in another point, it has to be a given that next year Brooks is the starting point guard.
I'm not going to blow this thread up and post another idea about getting artest. The more I look at it, the more I'm looking at it like DD and Gater. Tracy at this and in the future is the pg. Its nothing wrong with that, so now we need a sg trapped in a pg body . The key is he has to be able to get his own shot, defend pg and at least start the offense. That guy is Ben Gordon. No matter who plays pg, tracy is the ball handller and decision maker. So instead of fighting it, get Gordon because he really don't want that responsibiliity anyway. What gordon is, strong,quick,explosive,great scorer/finsher. He is strong enough to guard every big pg and quick enough to handle pg. Its no different than when porter played for adelman and clyde was the main assist guy. Now the rox may have a chance at him for jax and francis contract plus a 1st. then take ur mle and offer it to childress to backup 2/3. Plus he's also a good bandler and finisher.
Your logic is basically sound but has a serious flaw IMHO. Brian Cardinal and Mike Miller make a combined $15.m and they both expire after 2 more seasons. The only way MEM cuts cap expense is if they get $15m that expires next summer instead of the following summer. Otherwise, if the incoming contracts are equal in length and equal in value, you haven't "saved" anything. To put that $15m in a Rocket's perspective, why would MEM want only $6.2m of Jackson's expiring next summer when any other contracts the Rocket's have of signifcance last longer than Miller's? Then, take that same scenario out and try to find $15m worth of expirings throughout the rest of the league. Re-stated, the picks cost less but but they still need to put some talent on the floor. And my original point was that whatever they get, it'll be more than Bobby Jackson and chump change.
I totally agree. Ben Gordon may be an attainable option that makes a lot of sense for this team. I never liked the idea of giving up McGrady for the likes of Hinrich and Gordon. Adding Gordon, on the other hand, fills a few of the needs for this team in one move without getting screwed by getting too little value in return for Tracy. Gordon can shoot, take it to the rack and hit FTs. Plus, he is young, quick and strong, all of which this team needs and he can play PG even if he is primarily a shooter. Gordon may be a very good fit for Adelman. He is also a more versatile defender than any of our current PGs. Give him minutes and he will get to the line 5-6 times per game. We NEED that kind of production from at least one of our guards. Gordon McGrady Battier Scola Yao Brooks Novak Landry [cheap backup center] Gotta move Alston but I like this rotation to start 08-09. We will likely make at least another move with some our expiring contracts around next year's deadline. I am also a supporter of getting Artest, if it becomes an option, even though there are some real risks there (headcase, ballhog, chemistry-killer). I just think Artest is such an incredibly well-rounded, multi-skilled player that the potential gain outweighs the risks. Not only is he incredibly talented on both sides of the ball, he is also as fierce a competitor as there is in this league. Imagine this rotation: Gordon McGrady Artest Scola Yao Brooks Novak Landry [cheap backup center] Every player in this hypothetical starting lineup can give you 20+ points on any given night. We would still have a defensive stopper and improved defense at the point. There is also at least 2 perimeter players in the starting 5 that take it to the rack. Between Gordon, McGrady and Brooks, Novak off the bench, there is still some good shooting. Artest may not be a great shooter but he is clutch. I'm not good at the technicals of trades, so acquiring Gordon and Artest may be impossible budget-wise or without giving up too much. Furthermore, for this to work, Artest would have to accept that everything will still go through T-Mac or there will be problems from day one.
if deke retires next year which we dont want who should the rockets pick as a replacement center for Yao, as we know he gets injured a lot. do you guys think deke will stay for the 08-09 season?
Don't flame me for this but JJ Redick wants out of Orlando, JJ for Head straight up. I hated him for the #8 but straight up for Luther intrigues me.
Can somebody who is good at trade logic tell me if there is any practical way we could acquire Artest and Gordon without giving up McGrady, Scola or Yao in the offseason? Even if you don't agree with either, or both, of those acquisitions, is it even a remote possibility financially?
You have two obstacles. One is the CBA rules on trades which is black and white. It either works arithmatically or is does not. The second obstacle is value for value. Lots of gray areas and personal opinions. Before I go further, my gut level feeling is that there is no way you can add Artest and Gordon with what the Rocket's have to trade. Ron Artest's 2008 contract is a player option for $8.5m. If he declines the POpt he will be an unrestricted FA and can sign where he wants for how much he wants. That can range from taking the Knicks MLE or some of MEM $13m of cap space. However, the best deal for Artest is a Sign and Trade. He can make more than the MLE and expands his options beyond the 2 teams with cap space. Even if Artest declines the POpt, the Kings still have his Bird Rights and can sign him and then immediately trade him for a player or players that work cap wise. Ben Gordon's situation is substanially different. Gordon is a Restricted FA and the Bulls have his full Bird Rights. Meaning they can basically offer him more than any other team. But the bidding starts at Gordon's current 2008-09 salary of $6.4m. That's Gordon's Rookie Scale contract Qualifying Offer amount. The pretty much eliminates the 27 or so teams with only an MLE. However, just like Artest, Gordon can also be SnT'd to another team. But if the contract is more than ~8m, Gordon becomes a Base Year Compensation player. I'll spare you the details...ultra tough to SnT. So essentially the minimum needed to get both Gordon and Artest is somewhere around $16m. (8 + 8.5). Here's what you have.... Battier - 6.4m BJax - 6.1m Alston - 4.9m Scola - 3.1m Head - 2.0m That's just slightly more than you need and you'd have to assume CHI and SAC wanted these players in return. A huge assumption.
That what I was going to say Gater, but here is what I'm thinking. Having Artest and Gordon is overkill to me. I think the realistic possibility of getting one or the other is dangling cap room or young talent. The cap room and not letting the guy hold out and leave like eddie curry in chicago. They have shown they will sign and trade players. Gordon 5yrs 50m with a starting salary of 8m. Jackson 6m, Franicis 2m and head or the draft pick gives u 9.7m. That's the deal for him. We already know they wanted Brooks. We also know Artest wants more than the 8m he was making this yr. The same characters apply to him except u change out head for brooks and u give him 4yrs 40m. Either scenerio is very benficial to the rox. It probably takes the rox out of the james sweepstakes in 3yrs, but they can win a title with artest or gordon on the court. This team will never be a quick transition type because of personell, but if ur going to play a lot of half court, u have to be great at it. The spurs are. The late 90's lakers were. The pistons are. The rox need to get in that area and it will be on to the ring ceremony.
Jazz fan point of view. I wouldn't change your team around to much. Your biggest threat is hurt (Yao). Tmac is a great #2 guy and the combo of Scola,Battier and Brick to my lou isn't to shabby. Brooks is a pesky little PG that can get to the hole anytime he wants. I really haven't seen him much but he doesn't seem to shoot the ball well from outside and he rushes the offense a little to much. There is a PG out there who I think would fit your team perfectly. The way he is playing I doubt the team that has him would let him go. I'm talking about Andre Miller. He played his college ball at Utah which focused on defense and ball control. He'd take the pressure off both McGrady and Yao a little bit and be your #3 guy. I'm not sure what his contract looks like but I think he'd fit your team perfectly. BTW I heard Morey and a local Salt Lake Sports radio station and he sounds like he's a smart man that know what he wants and what to do with it. It really sounds like you have a great franchise. Not as great as Utah's but I guess thats debateable as well. Oh and the guy that said Ben Gordon might go to Houston for a 1-2 year contract at the MLE is smoking some good stuff. Send some of that stuff up to SLC please. Shaggy
