Charlie Rose's interview with T.R. Reid. <embed style="width:400px; height:326px;" id="VideoPlayback" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-8330115000465534396:2485000:877000&hl=en" flashvars=""> </embed> The documentary airs tonight.
I just turned this on and was going to post to let everyone to know to watch. Seems interesting. I'm currently against nationalizing health care but I'm always open to new information and other ideas and this seems like it'll be a somewhat fair piece on the issue (at least it has been so far). The fact that Japan's health care system costs 8% of their GDP (much less that we spend) is interesting to me. EDIT: And 5-10 minutes later I find out that 50% of Japanese hospitals are in financial danger. That might be why.
very interesting documentary. was not completely unbiased. leaned towards universal health care. didnt watch it all the way through but the gist was that its great for the country but will wreak havoc on the medical industry (financially speaking). some scary things that jumped out were 1. 50% of japanese hospitals are in financial jeopardy 2. swedens pharm companies are able to get by bc they make a large chunk of their profits in the US. 3. german docs work 12-16 hrs a day and only make 80k/yr 4. german doc have gone on strike to protest their low pay considering the high number of hours that they work. 5. taiwans healthcare system is about to go broke but politicians are too afraid to raise permiums 6. people have to pay ~$750 every month for premiums some good things that jumped out: 1. waiting time to see docs is about the same or even shorter than the US 2. germans docs dont pay for med school 3. liability insurance is really really low 4. everyone is covered even if you lose your job 5. no one is going broke bc of medical bills 6. taiwan has smart cards that help keep track of how many times someone visits the doc in order to prevent ppl from taking advantage of the system. 7. administrative cost are really really low 8. insurance companies are banned from making profits.
Insurance companies should be banned from making a profit. Saving lives takes money, making profits means to spend less money.
the guy doing the documentary did ask that question. its different in different countries but basically the insurance companies cant make profit on basic care. but they can sell supplemental policies on stuff like being able to stay in a nicer room... it seems like the companies are basically subsidised by the gov. so the more patients they bring in, the more subsidies they get (or something along those lines). if they have too few patients, then theyre shut down by the gov. in germany, the rich can opt out of the national plan and go with a private plan.
Profit motivation is another word for dog-eat-dog. It makes sense for any manager to encourage denying older higher risk customers and attract younger healthy customers. At this point, instead of pitting the public vs. the healthcare industry, it's rich vs. the poor, covered vs. the uncovered.
Nice recap 1.this is only in Taiwan, japan and germany( which is claimed to be the same but the times that woman listed is longer than my wait times) 2. Obviously we are now subsidizing the worlds pharmaceutical companies. They are freeriders. That sucks. if we change this then many will either go out of business or cut back on R&D. 4. I don't want to see my Dr. on strike. That freaking sucks. and makes them bitter. 5. slight correction it already has gone broke but the .gov lets them borrow to stay afloat. Basically a band-aid. 6. This is a bigger problem then many might see. Many times Dr's like to see the easy answer and you need to go to many to see many to get the right answer. Watch "Mystery Diagnosis" on discovery. The solution usually comes after years of weekly trips to different Dr.'s.
Personal comments: It seems even the best possible thing (ie the taiwan model) has serious issues even its only been around 10 years. In 20-30 years it could become terrible. Taiwan has around 20 million people and is rich. It was still argued to use the USA as the model (with slight changes). The oldest system, NHS from UK, also is the worst for patient care. Its my personal opinion that universal healthcare cannot be both available to everyone AND offer the same class of care. In germany its obvious the Dr's are unhappy and you will not get the best and brightest going to med school to make only 80K.
In case anyone missed it and wants to watch: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/
i think there still would be talented students going to med school just fewer of them. and the best of the best will focus on going into specialties that arent covered by universal health care (plastic surgery, dermatology...). also, i think a lot of docs would be burned out working 12-16 hrs/day and say screw it and change professions.
yeah I was not talking in absolutes, more in general terms. An extremely talented student's choice will be heavily affected.
It mentioned that they made medical school free in Germany. There is certain pride in having a doctor in the family, and at some point, even if you wanted to become an implant specialist, the market would already be crowded.
yeah, not paying for med school would be a pretty nice bonus. also paying only 1/4 of what US docs pay now for liability would be another nice incentive. but medicine would be hard pressed to attract large numbers of new students if the financial reward is not equitable considering the student would put in 4 yrs undergrad, 4 yrs med, 2-6 yrs residency/fellowship. then theyd have to work 12-16 hrs/week. the gov would have to toss in more incentives or drag them in kicking and screaming.
Doctors in UK still make like 160k so they can complain. If the the US got rid of their stupid rules about doctor immigration the salary of doctors would drop. If american students don't want to do it someone else will.. Look at Toyota and Honda. That is what we need.
We'll see it when it happens. How many years would it take for those students to pay off those loans for med school and turn a profit? I think most med school students didn't initially join with profit as the main motive. They could choose to be dentists or cosmetic surgeons if they were primarily interested in making money quick.
im not from UK but im guessing the cost of living is pretty high in the UK. probably more expensive than NYC, LA, or SF. so 160k would probably translate to ~70-80k (?) the US will probably have to drop their rules about docs immagrating from other countries to fill the gap. but if other modern countries have universal health care and the US adopts it too, then what would be the motivation for foreign docs to come to the US. sure youd still get docs from foreign countries but the majority of them would probably come from countries where their medical education is not on par w/ the US. this would fill the numbers but would probably adversly affect the quality.
