Magic Number for the Rockets against West Playoff Contenders

That was my thought process too, but apparently there is a 4 team divisional rule from the top 4 and the bottom 4. They decide the top 4 then deal with the left overs I guess. I didn't see anything like that in the official rules just an article posted by an NBA writer. We'll have to wait and see.

 

Is there any remaining possible scenario where we would have to go to a "random drawing" to break ties? That would be friggin sweet.

 

division tiebreaker rule goes first before other rules. what does it mean?

lets assume a case (not real case). like jazz, if jazz has 55-26 and lose to spurs in the last game. jazz become 55-27 and tie with suns and rox. we have a 3 team tiebreaker. if jazz doesn't have the best total head to head % among 3 teams, jazz still ahead suns and rox due to the division tiebreaker rule.

well, the real case (4 teams tiebreaker if spurs lose to jazz) doesn't hurt rox position. since jazz is division leader, it has one of top 4 seed. in reality, we have 3 team tiebreaker among spurs, suns, and rox. total head to head % will be calculated among these 3 teams. so anyway, suns (3:1 & 2:2) has better % than rox (2:2 & 2:2) and spurs (1:3 & 2:2). spurs has the worst %.

since suns move into top 4 seeds, jazz and suns has to break tie. jazz lead series over suns. the order is same as what we predicted.

if spurs win, then we only have 2 teams tiebreaker btw suns and rox. we win over suns due to better conference record.

 

That's exactly my take too.
Utah coming of top (n°3 seed, so top 4), I don't see any need of invoking any other undiscover rule.

 

There's once scenario where we would play the Hornets in the first round (I think).

If we go along with the 4 teams tied at 55-27, we could expand it to make it a 5 team tie with New Orleans. If the Hornets lost their last 2 games on Tuesday and Wednesday, they too would finish at 55-27.

Now, most of it breaks down just as the 4 team tie did. New Orleans would still win the division and be in the top 4. BUT when we seeded the top 4, the Lakers would be #1 and we'd have to go to a 3 team tiebreaker to determine the positions of NO, Utah, and Phoenix.

NO: 5-3
UTA: 5-2
PHO: 1-6.

So Utah would be the #2 seed while New Orleans would be #3 (4-0 v. Suns) and Phoenix would be #4. The Spurs would still be #5 and we'd still be #6. In this scenario, we would match up with the Hornets in the first round. It's unlikely, but it's possible. This is what would have to happen.

New Orleans loses twice. Rockets win. Suns win. Utah beats San Antonio.

Somebody's head is going to explode.

 

The first tiebreaker, the head to head between the Rockets, Spurs, and Suns is used to determine who gets into the Top 4 and that's it. You don't use those same numbers to determine the tiebreaker between Houston and San Antonio or Utah and Phoenix. You determine that by standard 2 team tiebreakers. Utah was better head to head against Phoenix so they get the #3 and Phoenix gets the #4. Houston and San Antonio were 2-2 so you go to division record which gives the Spurs the tiebreaker. San Antonio gets #5 and Houston gets #6.

 

Like I said, that would be friggin sweet. One can only dream.

 

this is freaking awesome!!!

I would like to see a 5 teams tie break!!!

 

"Parker's double-double helps Spurs secure third seed in West"

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280414023

 

Well, if the Rockets win on Wednesday, then if the Rockets and Suns meet in the playoffs, the Rockets will get home court.

It's still confusing which seed they will get if we have a 4 or a 5 way tie at 55-27.

 

Can someone help me out:

Based on what Kim and Scribo have been saying, we will pretty much play the Jazz. But in Feigen's new blog, he says that we could still very potentially play the Spurs or even the Suns? Is he right"

"If the Hornets win tonight and the Rockets, Jazz and Suns win Wednesday, there would be a four-way tie with the Jazz, Rockets, Spurs and Suns. In that case, the Jazz emerge from the group as a division winner and move up to the third seed. The Spurs fall to sixth with the worst record in games among the remaining group. The Rockets have the conference record tie-breaker against the Suns, and become the fourth seed, opening the playoffs at home against the Suns.

Again assuming the Hornets and Rockets beat the Clippers, if the Spurs beat the Jazz, the Rockets would open the playoffs in San Antonio." --Feigen

 

From the Salt Lake Tribune:

Link to article

The possibilities
Before leaving EnergySolutions Arena after Monday's game, I made sure to tell Jonathan Feigen, the Rockets writer for the Houston Chronicle, that we'd look forward to seeing him if the Jazz lost to the Spurs, Houston beat the L.A. Clippers and Phoenix lost to Portland.

That's just one of the eight playoff possibilities for the Jazz (assuming New Orleans wins either of its last two regular-season games against the Clippers and Dallas to get to 56 victories).

The simplest explanation is that if the Jazz win Wednesday - - and remember they've lost 20 straight games to the Spurs in San Antonio dating to February 1999 - - they will claim the Western Conference's No. 3 seed and home-court advantage in the first round.

If the Jazz lose, the only way they would claim home-court is if Houston and Phoenix also lose. What's particularly interesting is that the Jazz could easily wind up with the Spurs in the first round if they beat them Wednesday.

If they lose to the Spurs, the Jazz will play either Houston or Phoenix but without home-court advantage unless the Rockets and Suns also lose. Out of the eight scenarios, four have the Jazz playing Houston, three Phoenix and one San Antonio.

Here's the breakdown, with the respective records each team would be left with and the explanation of tiebreakers. Again, this is assuming New Orleans wins one of its final two games.

JAZZ WIN

Houston wins, Phoenix wins

Records: Jazz 55-27, Phoenix 55-27, Houston 55-27, San Antonio 55-27.

Tiebreakers: This is the much-discussed four-team tie. According to the NBA office, the tie is broken first by removing the Jazz, who are guaranteed a top four seed as the Northwest Division champions. Then you do a three-way head-to-head tiebreaker with the games the Rockets, Suns and Spurs have played against each other. Phoenix is 5-3, Houston is 4-4 and San Antonio is 3-5. The Suns and Jazz then are part of a tiebreaker to determine the Nos. 3 and 4 seeds. The Jazz own the season series with Phoenix so they are third, the Suns fourth, the Rockets fifth and the Spurs sixth. NBA spokesman Tim Frank confirmed this to both Feigen and myself Monday.

Jazz would play: San Antonio with home-court advantage



Houston loses, Phoenix wins

Records: Jazz 55-27, Phoenix 55-27, San Antonio 55-27, Houston 54-28

Tiebreakers: Phoenix won the season series against San Antonio so they would be the top four seed. The Jazz own the tiebreaker against the Suns, so they are third again, the Suns fourth, the Spurs fifth and the Rockets sixth.

Jazz would play: Houston with home-court advantage



Houston wins, Phoenix loses

Records: Jazz 55-27, San Antonio 55-27, Houston 55-27, Phoenix 54-28

Tiebreakers: San Antonio has a better division record than Houston, which would give them the tiebreaker for the top four seed. The Jazz would hold the season series tiebreaker against San Antonio, leaving the Jazz third, Spurs fourth, Rockets fifth and Suns sixth.

Jazz would play: Phoenix with home-court advantage.



Houston loses, Phoenix loses

Records: Jazz 55-27, San Antonio 55-27, Houston 54-28, Phoenix 54-28

Tiebreakers: The Jazz would own the season series against the Spurs while Houston would have a better conference record than Phoenix. That would leave the Jazz third, Spurs fourth, Rockets fifth and Suns sixth.

Jazz would play: Phoenix with home-court advantage



JAZZ LOSE

Keep in mind the Jazz are guaranteed no worse than a No. 4 seed as the Northwest Division champion

Houston wins, Phoenix wins

Records: San Antonio 56-26, Jazz 54-28, Houston 55-27, Phoenix 55-27

Tiebreakers: The Spurs are the third seed (also could be New Orleans), the Jazz are fourth and the Rockets fifth thanks to their conference record over the Suns.

Jazz would play: Houston without home-court advantage



Houston loses, Phoenix wins

Records: San Antonio 56-26, Jazz 54-28, Phoenix 55-27, Houston 54-28

Tiebreakers: None needed.

Jazz would play: Phoenix without home-court advantage



Houston wins, Phoenix loses

Records: San Antonio 56-26, Jazz 54-28, Houston 55-27, Phoenix 54-28

Tiebreakers: None needed.

Jazz would play: Houston without home-court advantage



Houston loses, Phoenix loses

Records: San Antonio 56-26, Jazz 54-28, Houston 54-28, Phoenix 54-28

Tiebreakers: The Rockets would be the fifth seed again thanks to their conference record over the Suns. The Jazz would have home-court advantage against the Rockets after winning the season series

Jazz would play: Houston with home-court advantage



Based on all this, the two most likely scenarios for the Jazz come with Houston and Phoenix both winning Wednesday. If the Jazz won, they would draw the Spurs but with home-court advantage. If the Jazz lost, they would draw the Rockets without home-court advantage.

The NBA: Where total absurdity happens

 

Since the Jazz can't go lower than 4th due to winning the division, I think they will be excluded from a 4 way tie scenario, thus making it a 3 way tie. Then the winner of the 3-way tie go head to head against Jazz.

First tie breaker for a 3-way tie is combined winning % among tied teams.
Rockets - 2-2/Suns 2-2/Spurs 4-4
Spurs - 2-2/Rockets 1-3/Suns 3-5
Suns - 2-2/Rockets 3-1/Spurs 5-3

Therefore it will be Rockets 5, and Spurs 6, leaving the Suns(tie-break winner) to go head to head with Jazz. Jazz have that series 2-1.

So it will be
#3 Jazz vs #6 Spurs
#4 Suns vs #5 Rockets

From here individual head-to-head matchups come in which means Jazz would have homecourt over Spurs and Rockets over Suns due to conference record.

I think that ESPN recap jumped the gun a bit. It says nothing of that sort in the NBA.com recap. Cause its a rock, paper, scissors between Spurs, Rockets, and Suns.

 

I am sure some NBA officials are debating how to apply the rules right at this moment.

Just a thought, if the decision of seeding comes out "wrong" according to what Scribo and Kim say here, can we (or anyone) protest?

 

A 5 way tie is not possible. If that happens, the division winner must be sorted out between Spurs, Hornets, and Rockets first. Since all 3 teams are 4-4 against each other, it goes to division record which we will be kicked out. Spurs and Hornets would be tied there also, so it goes to conference record so Hornets will win the division.

That leave Hornets and Jazz tied, Jazz win that 3-1 this season. So the Jazz go be the #2 seed, and Hornets #3. Leaving a 3 way tie between Spurs, Suns, Rockets.

As explained in my quoted post above, Suns come out on top, then Rockets, and Spurs last in the tie break. Leaving the Suns to go individually head-to-head with Hornets which Hornets swept 4-0.

That leads to:
#3 Hornets vs #6 Spurs (Hornets homecourt)
#4 Suns vs # #5 Rockets (Rockets homecourt)

Once again, individual head-to-head matchups decide who gets homecourt.

 

you're completely wrong. jazz is only one who takes advantage of division tie breaker rule. if jazz is tied with any team, jazz will use division tie breaker rule to seed in top 4. the rest teams are determined by the rule of total head to head winning % among them.

 

That article got it perfect. Anyone speculating or still trying to figure out what different scenarios exist, that article is spot on.