After further review

Well, I agree that they help their team in different ways, but I still think out of all of them Francis is the best all around player. In addition, I still think Steve has more upside than the other two.

 

I agree with DCkid.

However, I think Miller is by far the SMARTEST and most Saavy of the 3 and the best PG.

Davis is the 2nd best PG and is a lot stronger then the other 2.

Steve is the best Athlete of the 3, and if he can learn to play at a higher level intellectually can be the best of the lot.

DaDakota

 

Seems to me that Davis and Francis are probably a better comparison than those two and Miller. Miller is more of a straight up point guard who probably would excel with a second player to work with - i.e. Stockton and Malone.

Francis and Davis have the skills to carry their respective teams. Francis has a better shot but Davis has probably the better passing skills. Both are leaders.

I just think they are a bit different. Davis doesn't appear to be quite as dynamic as Francis or have the kind of "star-quality" game. Doesn't mean I wouldn't snap Davis up in a heartbeat though.

Miller is also a tremendous talent but I see him more as a Terrell Brandon type which isn't a bad thing either.

 

I don't think it good to compare the 3. It's not like we had a #2 draft pick and decided to take Francis. Vancouver just had a disaster and we took advantage. It would have been just as much a coup if it had been Davis or Miller who fell in our laps like that.

 

As far as I am concerned, they are all pretty special; however, if I am picking a point guard, everything else held constant, I have a hard time picking Francis over those guys. I want to be fair to Francis but over the past three weeks we have seen some of the best at that position and I keep saying to myself, "now why Steve does not do that?" All I saw Miller do last night is repeatedly get that ball to various people at the right time and place, notwithstanding the fact, as pointed out be Guokas, the Rockets play no defense at all.

 

Well, this is all speculation of course, because I can't predict the future. But I belive that one day Steve will be a 25ppg scorer. Along with his 8 rpg and 6 apg, I think that will put him a level above Davis and Miller. And some other things:

Davis is an absolute attrocious free throw shooter!. Then you have Francis who got to the line 22 Times in a recent game, and add on top of that his great FT shooting - that is a huge advantage for Steve in my opinion. Plus, Steve is a better outside shooter than Baron. He's struggling from the 3pt line this season, but he'll eventually raise it back up to around 40%.

Comparing Miller and Steve, I feel that Steve has a lot more room to grow as far as becoming a smart NBA player. With the time, he will not have as many turnovers and will make smarter decisions. Miller on the other hand is already a smart basketball player. The only thing I see him improving is his outside shot, which is the furthest thing from a jumpshot that I've ever seen. He's never going to be able to shoot when there is a defender near him.

 

We are very fortunate to have Steve. If we had either of the other two, I would feel very fortunate, also. They do have different styles and talents.

Steve and Barron have more flash, and I think more athleticism. I don't necessarily think that is a big plus. Steve gets banged around a lot more because he drives the rim so much. His athleticism lets him do that and finish, but he does pay for it. Is he more at risk for injury because of that? I think so. Miller is able to accomplish what he does without working as hard or taking as much abuse. I haven't seen Davis very much, but I'm guessing he is somewhere between the two.

I really hope I'm wrong about Steve being more at risk, but looking at it objectively, it''s there.

The big thing I see in Steve is what I'll call the Jordan factor. In addition to the talent, I think Steve has what it takes to impose his will on a game. He keeps us in games right until the end with that extra deternimation he has. I think he has to have just a little more help, however. Right now, there are too many obstacles to overcome.

 

Well, in Steve's defense (here comes a bunch of ifs). If he hadn't missed 18 games this season, if he wasn't having to play with migranies, if he wasn't having to seemingly miss every othery game because of the migraines, and if he was playing with the true, uninjured Rockets team I truly believe Steve would be having a much better season than he is now. I don't mean to make excuses, but I think its so obvious you could almost call it fact: if Steve and the rest of the Rockets could keep healthy, the whole season would be a different story.

 

I wouldn't want to lose Francis in a trade for either of those two guys, as good as they are. I think Steve's heart, and leadership potential are his biggest advantage over them. We saw what Steve was capable of when he completely outplayed Jason Kidd in the NJ loss. Kidd is probably the best there is in the league right now, but that game we saw just how good Stevie can be. I'm not ready to give up on the guy at all yet. I want to see him after a couple of seasons where he and most of our team stay relatively healthy. Steve has a lot of learning to do, and he seems eager to learn as much as he can. It will be fun to watch him mature and see him fulfill his potential.

 

why would we ever want to trade steve, especially for either of those 2 guys. all 3 are tremendous players but i think alot of people take steve for granted because we see him everyday. i like miller's game alot and like dearrock said, a few times i asked myself why doesn't steve do that? andre makes it alot simpler. but, i bet some cleveland fans were asking why CAN'T andre miller do that? that's the difference, miller played 4 years of college at the point guard position while steve started his training his rookie year. steve has natural talent that surpasses miller's. i also agree that steve has a certain presence on the court that the great one's have.

also when has baron davis led his team to the playoffs. i'm pretty sure all-star jamal mashburn and 20 ppg scorer david wesley with a big talented frountcourt had something to do with it. don't you think steve in that same situation would do equally as well if not even better. same could be said for miller.

 

One thing I noticed while watching the Cleveland broadcast on League Pass last nite was that the Cleveland announcers were so surprised at Miller draining those jumpers - as if his J is usually unreliable in other games. Whether this all means that Miller just got up for playing against Francis or if the Rockets D is just that bad, I'm not sure. But it does seem that we saw Miller at the top of his game last nite while Steve had a solid game, but not really one of his best.

All this considered, I still take Steve over Milller w/ the belief that he will one improve his D and decision making. Steve is clearly the superior scorer and in big games in the playoffs there is no greater asset than a guy like him who can break down a defense and get you a big bucket. Now we just need to get to the playoffs

*as always, IMHO - pls do your own due diligence*

 

Francis' defense is not great, but he's not getting torched as much as the numbers say.

For example, Steve Nash LIT Moochie up for 15 point in the 4th quarter, on 6-7 shooting, as well as getting 3 assists. Steve was playing the 2. Miller just dominated Moochie in the 4th quarter, until they just dumped it to Ziggy every play.

Francis is a mediocre defender, not a terrible one.

I'd be happy to have any of the 3.

Steve is the best rebounder of the bunch, and the most explosive scorer with Davis a close 2nd. Miller is the most Kidd-like amongst them.

Steve is the most apt to carrying a team. Miller needs pieces around him, and he can be dangerous. Davis can carry a team pretty well, but lacks the complete scoring game that Steve has.

 

You're comparing Andre's best year to Steve's career. His #'s have gotten better over the last couple of years.

I think Steve is 22.5/7/6.6 now or something like that.

I take into account the fact that Steve started one game in high school and only played one year of major college basketball. I think Andre is closer to his peak then Steve is.

Also, Andre plays with a couple of very good jump shooters and an athletic 6th man. Steve's best option is Cuttino, but he tends to create for himself, he doesn't need Steve' to set him up.

I'll put it this way, I think if Steve played for Cleveland, they would be better. If Andre played for Houston, I'm not sure we are better.

 

Yes, he is second in the league in triple doubles, he is tied with.....you'll never guess........Steve Francis. Kidd has 5, Andre and Steve have two. The difference? Steve has played in 18 fewer games. I think Steve would be second if he were healthy.

I think Andre is a great player. Noone has said he isn't. But, I think, with our struggles, alot of us want to assign blame on Steve, who happens to be one of our best players.

Everyone b****es and moans when Steve has bad TO games, yet this forum was deafly silent after Steve's 2 TO game last night. I think we need to cut the guy some slack.

I also think that our record with him vs our record without him shows how valuable he really is.

 

This is not a challenging question,

Baron Davis has led his team to the playoffs in the pathetic eastern conference. This year, they are a .500 ball club.

Andre Miller has yet to lead his team to 40 wins, and he too plays in the easy East.

Aside from his rookie year, the Rockets are above .500 when Steve plays, in the difficult West.

The statistics don't lie. Steve leads Baron and Andre in every statistical category except for assists. Steve isn't supposed to be a pure point guard averaging 15-10 every night. He is a hybrid 1 and 2 guard. We are talking about a guy who's averaging 22-8-6 here! I'd take that over Miller's high assist numbers any day.

The only thing keeping Steve from CRUSHING his competition is his lousy defense. That is something he can improve on. He clearly has the desire, and I believe he has the ability. What Steve doesn't have is someone who can teach him the fundamentals of good defense. Rudy obviously can not design a defense without Hakeem manning the middle, and there are zero defensive specialists on the team to tutor Steve. Until someone works with him on his D, he will struggle at that end.

I wonder, if the Rockets used multiple screens to free open shooters, would Steve rack up assists like Miller does? Most likely.