OK - to preface this, I would like to ask Obama supporters or McCain supporters or Hillary haters to refrain from antagonizing. This is meant to be an honest question for Clinton supporters. I've asked this of many of my friends, but they are all Obama or McCain people, so the response is fairly predicable. In the last week or two, there's definitely been a shift away from the Wright story to this Clinton Bosnia "sniper fire" story. Along with the Chelsea 9/11 story (http://pundits.thehill.com/2008/03/26/hillarys-other-fabrication/), it seems to be an almost disqualifying factor in a President. Not legally, of course, but to me it seems like it shows the worst thing a President can do - basically, lying without regard to reason or rationale. And silly lying too - neither was necessary, and both were easy to disprove, and it appears that both stories were just taken from others (Snowe and Schumer). I've said for a while that I think she has serious character deficiencies, and it seemed to simply crystalize them for me. Unlike a lot of the junk in the campaign (but similar to the Wright controversy), it seems to have stuck in the public as well, with Obama breaking out of the 40-50 range in the Gallup tracking poll that both candidates have been stuck in, and a 10-pt shift in the Rasmussen tracking poll. Obviously, this could shift again next week as this race is so volatile, but it seems this particular story got traction with a lot of people. But, ultimately, I recognize that I'm biased. We all see the best in the people we support and the worst in the people we don't. Most of my Obama/McCain friends already were anti-Hillary, so our reactions were sort of predictable. But I'm curious what reaction Clinton supporters have/had when these stories came out. Is it a minor concern, major concern, something you feel is just inherent in politicians, etc? Or did it make you think less of Hillary, but still feel she's better than the alternatives? I know this sounds like yet another attack on Hillary, but I'm really just curious what her supporters think of this story / issue. I won't, and I hope others won't, turn it into an argument of whether the view is right or wrong.
I think it's silly to seriously bash her for that Bosnia stuff or draw inferences about her ability to be president from it... At the same time it's definitely ripe for ridicule and mocking...
As a Hillary voter in the primary, I did find her stretching the truth to be repulsive. Honesty is something that I care deeply about, and she did not check that box. However, a little stretching the truth is MUCH better than aligning themselves with an American hating preacher for 20 years, and then appointing them to your campaign in as spiritual leader. That shows a fundamental flaw in judgement that I cannot overlook.
It's disappointing. But more silly then groundbreaking to me. The Chelsea one is just stupid. Bosnia -- more of an overhyped 'look I was somewhere dangerous' type thing. Obama's had a few gaff's of his own. appologies for the source -- quick google search Not really trying to equate the two. Or suggest he's as bad as she is on this count....but there are much stronger reasons to vote for (or against) either candidate in my opinion.
Great thread! It's not like this is the first time she has lied, she really has always had a lying problem.
I did appologize for the source I'd read the Life thing from a more reputable source -- and was really just saying -- to me -- these petty lies are more frustrating then formative. And demostrating that even Obama's been caught. I took Major at his word that he was curious and not looking for yet another Hill / Obama slugfest.
Yeah - I've read many of those before too, and I have no idea why he would say them either. Some of them (like the asbestos thing) are a bit controversial, but things like how his parents met fit the theme. Why make that up? I don't understand these things at all.
I know you didn't ask for my opinion here, but as an Obama supporter I don't really care about this stuff. My opposition to Clinton is based on other things -- her Iraq vote (on which I also opposed Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt and others), her misrepresentation of Obama on the issues (health care, Iraq, abortion rights, party loyalty) when he never behaved similarly toward her and (worst) her suggestion and Bill's that McCain would be a better president or commander-in-chief than her Democratic rival. I don't care any more about the Bosnia or 9/11 things than I do about Wright or Obama's flub on the questionnaire or the Kennedy's helping his father. Nobody's perfect.
Politicians are politicians. Obama is not Jesus and I can not stand his freakish supporters. Hillary supports Houston, NASA and the Constellation program. Big difference to me.
Does T-mac support the Constellation Program? That is how Meowgi will determine his answer. For the record, I used to work in the Constellation Program Office. That program is doomed. DOOMED.
I agree. Focusing on the daily "gotcha" keeps America dumb and replaces legitimate discussion of issues of national interest with a perverse form of infotainment. Economics and foreign policy besides "there are bad guys and I will defend you" is generally too complex for high TV ratings. Hopefully the media will focus on a couple of exagerations or lying" stories by McCain, it can be called even, and the issues can be discussed. The one-sided focus on these relatively bogus "character" type of issues is extremely dangerous and is what turned Al Gore into a habitual liar and Dubya into a man of sterling character.
Apparently not. In fact rumor has it that people are asking for payment in advance from the Hillary campaign for services at campaign stops because she's been running out on paying her bills. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9259.html
biased much? Hillary's lying is worse because she didn't "stertch the truth a little." She gave a whopper of a lie and that shows a flaw in judgment and character. I don't give a **** what Obama's pastor said. If my best friend/brother/father/sister/mother or whoever else says something stupid and idiotic that doesn't mean i agree with anything they said.
We managed to get through a page without anything too ridiculous being posted. The responses are interesting, both from Clinton supporters and Obama supporters, who mostly seem to be in agreement. For my friends and I, the reaction was very different. I wonder if it's in part due to the same reasons I like both Obama and McCain - that issues aren't the driving factor so much as character to me. Others come at it from a more "this is politics" perspective, which I can see. Anyway, thanks for all the responses1
