We report; you decide. Ten points taken from a translation of The Communist Manifesto and how the US is lining right up. And you thought you were free !!! <b>1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rent to public purpose.</b> The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management <b>2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.</b> Misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share". <b>3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance</b> We call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes. <b>4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels</b> We call in government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. <b>5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.</b> We call it the Federal Reserve which is a credit/debt system nationally organized by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC). This private bank has an exclusive monopoly in money creation which in reality has ended the need for revenue from taxes. So why do they tax? To FOOL YOU into thinking they need them. <b>6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the State</b> We call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) madated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations. There is also the postal monopoly, AMTRACK and CONRAIL <b>7. Extention of factories and instruments of production owned by the State, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.</b> We call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture. As well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Evironmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations. <b>8. Equal liablity of all to labor. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture. </b> We call it the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000. And I almost forgot...The Equal Rights Amendment means that women should do all work that men do including the military and since passage it would make women subject to the draft. <b>9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.</b> We call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136. <b>10. Free education for all children in government schools. </b> Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc. People are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, which train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" . ------------------------------------------------------------------- Kind of eerie. Does changing the words, change the end result? By using different words is it all of a sudden OK????? We are so "smart," aren't we?? Someone once said: "None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free."
interesting post...of course you'll get the responses from some that would tell you we need to look more like the communist manifesto's plan... i don't find all of these concerning...i find a few of them concerning...and i find the totality very concerning. i would fight and die for liberty...and I would not fight and die for communitarian ideas.
HOLY CRAP! WE'RE GOING TO BE LIKE THE USSR! I believe we're in a socialist stage or semi-socialist (damn communists)
Yeah, we're definitely turning communist. Here are some more ways we are just like those communists: (1) Our society requires PEOPLE! That was a prerequisite there too. (2) Our society requires GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS! That also was important to the commies. Things like #10 have nothing to do with Communism. They were around BEFORE communism. Just because Communism has them (as they do people and buildings), does not make them communist. The keys to #1, #3, #4, #5, & #8 are the words "all" and "exclusive", which the author conveniently ignores in his rant. Of course there is going to be SOME public property. That's the case in ALL forms of government. #2, #6, #7, and #9 are also not unique in any way to Communism. When the people lose the right to vote and have a say in their government, then we've lost democracy. This is someone trying to show we're becoming communist and making up stuff to prove his point. And people fall right in.
<b>Major</b>: Exactly what is made up? The piece shows common features that American government is increasingly sharing with some of the provisions of The Communist Manifesto. Nothing is exactly duplicated point by point. The piece doesn't insinuate that but you bury them for a crime they didn't commit. Take your blinders off and withdraw your ridiculous additions to the comparison. You forgot air and water, by the way! Pets are nice too and belong to any form of government. Your reaction is a tad reactionary. I suggest you consider the merits of the analogy instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
<B>Major: Exactly what is made up? The piece shows common features that American government is increasingly sharing with some of the provisions of The Communist Manifesto. </B> The connections are made up. For example, yes, the Communist Manifesto says free schooling is a key. So did we, well before the any real communist government existed! So do most other forms of government. How exactly does this make us Communist? Maybe it made the USSR a Democracy? Yes, these are all parts of communism, but they certainly aren't the only things nor the key things. All governments, Communist, Democracies, Monarchies, whatever, have similarities. They are not different in every possible way. This author tried to show that since we have similarities, we are becoming like the Communists (or that we are not as free as we thought). That makes no sense. <B>Nothing is exactly duplicated point by point. The piece doesn't insinuate that but you bury them for a crime they didn't commit. </B> It does insinuate that there are enough similarities to make a connection, and that's simply not true. The connections are flimsy and don't even fit. It's like saying one country makes cars illegal, and the other requires seatbelts on cars, so they are similar. <B>Take your blinders off and withdraw your ridiculous additions to the comparison. You forgot air and water, by the way! </B> The ridiculousness of the analogy was the point. Tell me one government in the world (or in history) that doesn't believe in the majority of the philosophies listed below (to the extent that the US does, not the manifesto). Do you really believe every government in world history was basically secretly communist? <B>Your reaction is a tad reactionary. I suggest you consider the merits of the analogy instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.</B> I'm happy to listen to any argument that draws useful parallels between communism and what the US is becoming. This isn't it, though. It was started with a conclusion and created a premise to fit it.
<b>Major</b>: "The connections are made up. For example, yes, the Communist Manifesto says free schooling is a key. So did we, well before the any real communist government existed! So do most other forms of government. How exactly does this make us Communist? Maybe it made the USSR a Democracy?" <b>The piece talks about historical trends and siilarities; call them connections if you will. Granted, it is a bit simplistic and these issues are far more complicated, but you try and see no merit because you are so eager to dismiss. Yes, many countries offer free government education-- including ours. The real issue is not in the paying for the education it is in the controlling of the content. If you don't think there is/was a real difference between the US and the USSR, God help you. The tragedy is that that difference is diminishing. Oh, by the way, now we are seeing revisionist history in the US as well. Did you see the other day that they were trying to eliminate the Founding Fathers from the elementary schoolbooks.</b> <b>Major</b>: "Yes, these are all parts of communism, but they certainly aren't the only things nor the key things. All governments, Communist, Democracies, Monarchies, whatever, have similarities. They are not different in every possible way. This author tried to show that since we have similarities, we are becoming like the Communists (or that we are not as free as we thought). That makes no sense." <b>As MadMax noted, taken in isolation each may not be that big of a deal but taken as a whole it is a ponderous situation.</b> <B>Major</b>: "Tell me one government in the world (or in history) that doesn't believe in the majority of the philosophies listed below (to the extent that the US does, not the manifesto). Do you really believe every government in world history was basically secretly communist?" <b>Most governments spring from these same key elements. The US government existed prior to the Manifesto, so the Manifesto would very logically have sprung forth from these common elements. The shading is the difference. In a historical time frame, the shading is very important. That's why we have constitutional law.</b> <b>Major</b>: "I'm happy to listen to any argument that draws useful parallels between communism and what the US is becoming. This isn't it, though. It was started with a conclusion and created a premise to fit it." <b>It made observations and drew conclusions. You don't like that they put their conclusion in the headline? Is that it? You must be a Communist then!</b>
<B>Yes, many countries offer free government education-- including ours. The real issue is not in the paying for the education it is in the controlling of the content. If you don't think there is/was a real difference between the US and the USSR, God help you. The tragedy is that that difference is diminishing. </B> If the article wanted to discuss the how those differences are diminishing, it would have been of value. All it basically chose to say is that "Communism supports free Education. The US supports free Education. Look, they're similar!". It then pointed out some features of the US education system without linking them in any way to Communist similarities. Like I said, I'm open to hearing those arguments, but they aren't made in this article. <B>Oh, by the way, now we are seeing revisionist history in the US as well. Did you see the other day that they were trying to eliminate the Founding Fathers from the elementary schoolbooks. </B> Again, interesting argument. Not at all mentioned or dealt with in the article. <B>As MadMax noted, taken in isolation each may not be that big of a deal but taken as a whole it is a ponderous situation.</B> As I mentioned earlier, name one government that doesn't believe in the majority of those philosophies to the extent that the US does. And if you can't, then do you think all governments are semi-communist? <B>The shading is the difference. In a historical time frame, the shading is very important. That's why we have constitutional law. </B> EXACTLY! Yet, none of these issues are dealt with in the article. There is no reference to the time frame, the shading, the minor differences, NOTHING. It's those minor (and major) differences that are the key to show the unique differences (for example, one "minor" difference is that if we don't believe in any of these aspects on a large scale, we can elect people to change it. Communist society couldn't do that). Without the nuances, any two governments can be made to look similar, and that's EXACTLY what this article does. It has absolutely NO substance to it.
The Ruskies is gonna git ya! <img src="http://www.animatedgif.net/flags/-flags-uncat/ussr-white_e0.gif"> Muwahahahahahahaha... <font size=1>look, i'm like rockHEAD now! </font>
<b>Major</b>: It's not an article; it was a piece that came over the internet. It is thought provoking. I think that is all it was meant to be. That doesn't render it useless. I disagree with your conclusion, though. Piece by piece, the US does seem to be moving closer to resembling a goverment that we don't want it to resemble. Just because the movement is slow doesn't mean it doesn't exist and therefore should be taken seriously. Gradual changes would be the hardest to root out because they have a way of becoming famililar.
Ah, you guys woke up this AM and realized we live in a socialist country. Take from the people that run things and give it to those that follow.
That's one of the more amusing things I've ever read. If it's serious, I pity the idiot who wrote it. If it's not... damned funny. That would only provoke "thoughts" in a militia member. Bet McVeigh would have found it inspiring. Marxism's appeal was always in its attempt to address the problems of pure capitalism. The reason Marx's predictions of utter social revolution never came to pass is that capitalist countries adjusted. There were genuine problems, and they were fixed in a moderate, less radical fashion.
major -- i think you make the assertion that as long as we have the right to vote, we're not communist...or something along those lines, right?? if you didn't say that I don't want to disagree with you... if you did say that, i strongly disagree. capitalism is what is lost with the emergence of communism...not necessarily democracy...not at first, anyway.
<b>haven</b>: Are facts facts? Yes it is a little extreme. I, for one, am terrifically glad that we have zoning laws and interstate highways. Do you really think that the central thrust of the piece is that far off base? Do you really think the author is an idiot? <b>MadMax, Colby</b>: Are you guys militia members? I'm not. I don't find this inspiring; I do find it to be of some concern. I prefer that our country move in a different direction.
am i a militia member??? my friends would laugh their butts off if they heard you ask me that question! i don't own a gun...i'm all for the rights of individuals to protect themselves..and someday i might own a gun...but not before i get comfortable with them and learn how to handle them. it's the strategy of people on both sides to label their political opponents as extremist (communist/nazi/etc). haven is a very smart guy, and he's not afraid to tell you that. he's also not afraid to basically call you a dumbass in the context of his posts. won't be the last time if you disagree with him. and don't get him started on his immense debating experience and how wrong you are for not debating properly. loads of fun.
giddyup: I'd say the author is paranoid. The laws the author seems to object to so strongly are the very same ones that largely have prevented communism from becoming more of a reality. After all, there is a scale with pure marxism on one end, and pure capitalism on the other. Go to far either way, and you're going to have a miserable society. Following the industrial revolution, serious reforms were necessary to prevent misery from becoming so widespread as to incite a true revolution. These reforms have been implemented. People who favor pure Marxism or pure captialism are extremists... and quite frankly, terrify me. EDIT: Incidentally, if you were just posting that because you thought it was interesting, I apolgize for any insulting innuendo. MadMax: I expect people to adhere to logic. Not too onerous, I hope? Incidentally, if you truly believe that post. Yes, you're damned close to being a militia member (or at least, maintaining most of the same beliefs... I guess being a militia member is a type of reaction, not an ideological position). The author is objecting to anything short of pure capitalism. If you object to anything but pure capitalism yourself, you're a lunatic. I'd say the same to a person who advocated straight Marxism.
Unless you feel that Americans have lost their right to vote representatives to make govermental decisions, then American is becoming EXACTLY what "we" want it to be. The people we elected to represent us either do our bidding, or they get voted out, generally. Perhaps is it moving closer to something YOU don't want it to resemble.
haven -- don't know if you read my posts or not on this topic...you can determine for yourself whether or not i'm a lunatic or a militia member or both. your opinion as to my mental state isn't all that concerning to me. you expect people to adhere to logic?? huh?? it's a freaking basketball message board. i'm not sure anyone made themselves subject to your expectations when they first decided to post here...I know I didn't. try not to take yourself and others so seriously...it's all just chasing after the wind.
Unless you feel that Americans have lost their right to vote representatives to make govermental decisions, then American is becoming EXACTLY what "we" want it to be. The people we elected to represent us either do our bidding, or they get voted out, generally. Perhaps is it moving closer to something YOU don't want it to resemble. [/B][/QUOTE] Raven -- I am concerned that our legislative branch has turned over way too much power to agencies in the executive branch of our government which are virtually held unaccountable for their actions. for example: we don't get to vote for the federal reserve chairman...but yet i hear people say here all the time that he's ultimately the most powerful man in this country.
Yeah, haven. It's all just...uhhh...chasing after the wind. How dare you try to have an intelligent conversation in the HANGOUT forum of a basketball message board. Didn't you know that we are only allowed make caption game threads here, and maybe the occasional "Which chick is hotter?" thread. Leave all that politcking stuff for the politicking folk.
