1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

the Notorious Rafer

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by aussie rocket, Mar 23, 2008.

Tags:
  1. pmac

    pmac Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    8,395
    Likes Received:
    3,255
    lol!! I'm sure he was joking but....

    Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, Chris Paul, Kevin Garnett, Tmac, Amare, Dwight Howard...
    Wilt, Kareem, Olajuwon, MJ, Scottie Pippen, Magic Johnson...
    (I remember Bird saying something about this too)

    I see a trend, really, i know stereotypes are wrong but, really... ;)
     
  2. SuperStar

    SuperStar Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    5,057
    Likes Received:
    70

    wow it fits.
     
  3. Htowns_Finest

    Htowns_Finest Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    0
    ?????
     
  4. Jeff Who

    Jeff Who Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    41
    Well I agree. He was a big reaso why we won that 22 games in a row. He was making shoots, making team better and he was pretty agressive. And I say 'thank you very much Rafer for that'.

    But you don't wanna have a point guard who thinks 1st to shoot and 2nd to pass. Rafer needs to understant that he needs to creat positions for other players. Tracy should not care about asist and passes, it should be Rafer because he is a point guard. He should make the game easier for other people.

    And I hate those plays when he runs on the break and stops for stupid 18footers or even a 3s which very often are airballs.

    We know he's not a great shooter, of course once he gets into his rythm he can make every sho (look at gama agaonst Lakers) but he is not great shooter. He needs to attack the basket more, especially with his quickness.

    His decisions sometimes really HURT the team. He needs to be a little bit smarter.
     
  5. pmac

    pmac Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    8,395
    Likes Received:
    3,255
    in regards to the rest of this post...

    We have many holes, the pg is just the biggest one. Vspan wasn't really all that young when we had him either (didn't he say he was tmac in greece), and with time he could have become what we needed. But how long do you wait, he already wanted out and we had an opportunity to get a great player who would help us now (Scola).

    It definately takes time for pg's to develop but we don't have that time. The rockets can only hope that they can pry away a good pg with their mid level or expiring contracts.
     
  6. Htowns_Finest

    Htowns_Finest Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nothing in that post that I wrote has anything to do with McGrady.
     
  7. Htowns_Finest

    Htowns_Finest Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    0
    But that is not the way Adelman's system works. I agree with 95% of your post. But Adelman's system requires that you have a PG that will shoot the ball. Look at when he had Rod Strickland and Terry Porter in Portland, and when he had Mike Bibby and Bobby Jackson in Sacramento. Those where all shoot first point guards. Rafer just needs to penetrate a lot more.
     
  8. Jeff Who

    Jeff Who Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    41
    But you can't compare Rafer to Bibby, can you?? :rolleyes:

    Maybe Adelman needs to change it, maybe he needs to talk to Rafer. I don't know, but someone needs to tell him to drive more. He was doing it pretty well when T-Mac was out.
     
  9. Htowns_Finest

    Htowns_Finest Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm just explaining Adelman's system and his pieces he has had before. I totally agree that Rafer needs to drive more.
     
  10. pmac

    pmac Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    8,395
    Likes Received:
    3,255
    Mcgrady is the best passer on the team, he should be in a position to pass. Rafer is the best ball handler, he should be in a position to handle the rock. It has been like this forever, the biggest advantage to having a wing player who is a good passer is that he can create for others. He isn't what we need and never will be. There are players who aren't even as good as him that fit better with the team (Bjax, don't we always seem to go on a run when he comes in) because they shoot better and give it to tmac EARLY instead of trying to be the hero.

    Step 1 -- get a good post player
    Step 2 -- get a good perimeter player
    Step 3 -- surround them with shooters
    Step 4 -- play hard defense
    Step 5 -- Win a championship

    For some reason we just skipped step 3, and expected to be able win it all. I don't care what a pg does well. On this team, if he can't shoot, then we don't need him.
     
  11. SWTsig

    SWTsig Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,053
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    i'm gonna have to go ahead and give this post my stamp of approval. i've been a rafer supporter this whole time, but even i'll admit that his offensive game is so inconsistent that an upgrade needs to be made... we cant go into the playoffs having absolutely no idea how are 1 is going to play. it's sad but true.

    this 22 game streak gave us (and subsequently him) a lot of national exposure, and he really did have a very large part in it... his stock will never be higher, assuming he doesn't completely tank these last few weeks and in the playoffs.
     
  12. Jeff Who

    Jeff Who Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    41
    Put McGrady on high post, like like Adelman did in 2 previous game (I love it).

    But you have to admin he's also our best scorer...
     
  13. pmac

    pmac Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    8,395
    Likes Received:
    3,255
    You're completely right.

    They need to keep him in a position where he can make a decision to score or pass when help defense comes. For some odd reason, they had started putting him in more of a inefective full out pg position where he could only pass or take a low percentage shot (iso at top of the key, PnR at top of key).

    He has to make the plays for the rockets to be succesful.

    Its funny that everyone is looking for a pass first guard and we already have one.
     
  14. Jeff Who

    Jeff Who Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    41
    That play is one of the best for him. I hate to say it but pick'n'roll right now is the WORST play for him. Really. And I'm happy Adelman noticed it too. In previous 2 games Tracy didn't run pick'n'rolls at all (maybe only several times).

    But the high post is really the best. They can't double him cause if the do there will be someone open on the perimeter or around the rim. And if you know anything about McGrady you shell know he's a great passer so he always finds open teammates.

    He can easily drive from there, even with help defense he is able to finish or at least draw the fouls. Of course he can take that jumper also.

    That just shows us that Adelman is really smart.

    I also noticed that Tracy is getting a lot more screens off the ball which freeze him up for jumpshots
     
  15. Rockets4279

    Rockets4279 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,208
    Likes Received:
    14
    Well Alston's play also goes for #3 its not about them bricking shots its just they are not getting the right passes and this has alot to do with Alston because he just playes in the flow of the offense instead of reading the defense to make the pass. What im saying is he dont initiate his play to make the pass instead its more about floaters and more about looking for his own shot instead of setting up his team mates for a higher percentage shot. More often then not a shot will go in from a nice pass but what we have been seeing lately is them trying to create their own jump shot off the dribble which is why the team shoots poorly and alot of the blame can be pin pointed to Alston for not setting them up properly. Look at Nash im not trying to say Alston is Nash but what im saying is Nash makes everybody look so much better because the way he reads the defense and sets up his team mates and this is something Alston clearly doesnt have.
     
  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    128,543
    Likes Received:
    38,770
    Alston is what he is...and that is the weakest link on an otherwise strong team.

    He is a very steady ball handler, but if there is a chance to upgrade the position, by all means you have to do it.

    Yes, he did well during the 22 game winning streak, and yes, overall he has been pretty good this year, but we still need a better PG on this team.

    Rafer is an average player at best....and it would be nice to have a pass first type of PG that can put pressure on the opposing team.

    Rafer is not good on the PnR, he rarely passes to the cutter, he does shoot it a lot though, and personally, I do not want a guy shooting 40% and below that as a career average to be the player who shoots the 2nd most on the team.

    Can anyone honestly say they want Rafer to shoot the 2nd most shots? Honestly?

    As for that, all I have to say is sometimes a coach and player do not fit, and JVG and his "low risk" type of coaching do not mesh with a "High risk" type of player like V-Span.

    If V-Span decides to come back to the NBA, I am certain that a lot of GMs will be lining up to offer him a good contract. Personally, if Morey decided to bring him back, I would love it....The proof is in the hot dog.


    DD
     
  17. ibm

    ibm Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    8,600
    Likes Received:
    60
    as a starter rafer is decent. and he's had his moments this year. but for a championship contender, i'd like see him as a backup. in other words, he ain't good enough to make a solid pg on a championship team. he's still the weakest link on our team among all 5 positions. i think i heard morey say one time that to upgrade our pg is still high on his to-do list this offseason (poor rafer).
     
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    128,543
    Likes Received:
    38,770
    I would be completely shocked if someone actually believed that Rafer was strong enough as a starter.

    I mean he has his strengths for sure, is a good defender, plays the passing lanes well, and is a very good ball handler.

    But when we hit crunch time, other teams are going to leave him wide open, just like Kidd in Dallas these days.

    And, I for one do not want our playoff hopes to hinge on a career sub 40% shooter...

    Morey is obviously aware of this fact, I am not sure why some people here are not.

    DD
     
  19. Htowns_Finest

    Htowns_Finest Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    0
    You wanted him to shoot when we played against the Lakers last week.
     
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    128,543
    Likes Received:
    38,770
    Look, if the guy is making it, great, by all means fire away, the problem is that those games are few and far between.

    I would take consistent production over a guy who gets hot every now and again.

    Htowns,

    Do you honestly think Rafer can sustain that level of play throughout a playoff series? REALLY?


    DD
     

Share This Page