I want to be the first to apologize to DearRock

He did still pull off a 30-6-7 night (plus two steals and a block). The 6 TOs were horrible, granted. But all in all, we're not even close tonight without him.

 

yet he still managed 7 assists. the 6 to's were horrible but everyones entitled to a bad game. if you could call, 30/7/6 a bad game?

 

A-train, you must really be pissed off at Francis. You were awfully quiet in chat when sTeve did make plays, and you said "Francis can be a moron" after Moochie fouled Nash on a drive.

I think Francis has really helped Cato in the last few games.

 

The Rockets lose by 30 tonight without Francis.
Dude get a grip!
Go Rockets!!

 

Thanks A-Train.

This thing is not a joke. Is not like Steve is taking the night off or any like that. It is just a realization that he and the team desperately needs him to do a better job on the point. Tonight is not his only 6 turnover night in the last week. About two weeks ago, I wrote that Stevie should be locked in a room to watch eight hours of the plays of Magic, Stockton, Thomas and Kidd. Now you can add Nash to that list.

I did see some ball fakes on the perimeter which I think is good. He needs to be more surgical and deliberate; and respect and exploit the pick and roll. For decades people less gifted have made a living off it.

Good game overall.

 

911

 

Okay, before I start, I'd like to say that I am NOT among those who think that Francis should be a SG....However, those who are making posts like " Francis had a 30/7/7 night...we're not even close without him" are sort of missing the point...I don't think that DearRock or anyone is suggesting that Francis has NO vlaue as a PG, just that his value isn't best utilized there...The fact that he has a big scoring night and continues to be our best player in no way supports the argument that he's a PG...He would still put up big numbers and be our best player if he were playing SG, or PF for that matter, but the TEAM wouldn't operate as well...You could put Shaq at point, and I guarantee that he'd still put up big numbers, doesn't mean he's a PG...How the team operates and whether or not his opponents have big nights, combined with his talent, are how you determine if he's playing the right position...

Like I said, I think that Stevie's ultimate value will be as a PG, and while I concede that it would be EASIER to switch him to SG after he has bad turnover nights, and his opposites torch him, that would be short term gain for long term loss...The guy's still developing, and doing a remarkable job of it...Let's not forget that PG is far and away the hardest position to learn, and he played SG in college, and he's already an All-Star at the postion...I fully believe that by the time we're in a position to make a run at a title, Steve will be firmly entrenched and quite comfortable as a PG...But let's not overlook the argument for switching him by only looking at his numbers, they're a constant whatever position he plays...

 

I agree.

By no means do I say that Francis is not a good PG, or a good player.

It's just that his decision making and ability to control the tempo is average to below average for a PG.

We really need a true PG who can help setup Steve with fast breaks and layups.

 

I blame RT more than Francis for all these offensive problems leading to frustrating turnovers. His BS ISO offense is never going to get this team ANYWHERE when teams like the Mavs zone up all the way to the 3pt line and converge on all penetration. The only reason we began to make a comeback towards the end of the third is b/c our defense forced some turnovers/bad shots and got our fastbreak going. I really hope the zone rules are reversed for next season, or RT will continue to stubbornly ISO this team into the ground/lottery for years to come.

 

Steve has ZERO clue about how to run an offense, he is terrible at getting others involved.

I want to believe that he will get better, but after nearly 3 years, I just don't see the PG mentality.

Maybe it is time to move him to SG like Larry Brown did with Iverson.

DaDakota

 

I disagree, I think Steve can be a proficient PG and learn to make good decisions. But the coaching staff needs to 1) instill far more movement into the offensive system and 2) force Francis to become more disciplined in reacting to the defense intelligently.

 

I actually wouldn't mind getting a "true" PG (and keeping Moochie - for all his faults, he really does play point well for a backup, Rudy's just using him badly) and moving Steve over to the 2. IMHO Steve is actually a SG who can run the offense in tandem with a true PG (which is why I think Rudy likes to play small so much - Mooch, Steve, and Cuttino), and who can, at times, run the offense all on his own. But he really is not consistent enough there to be considered a "true" PG. IMHO.

He's had nearly three years to learn how to do it himself. If he hasn't learned it by now, he's not going to. Just as Mobley's decision making skills are probably as advanced as they're going to get, Steve's distribution and decision-,aking skills are probably about as good as they're going to get. I don't buy the "he's still learning" argument. And that's not to say that overall, he's not a good PG... He is still a top 5 PG.

But if we can pull a deal to get another starting PG, that would not disappoint me. I think that Steve's real strength is his explosive scoring ability, and he could do that better at the 2. The PF-like rebounds and the assists are just icing on the cake. But unless we get that other starting PG, Steve's it. And he is not at all bad at that position...

I actually think that you could stick him in any position, and he'd have a similar performance on average. Maybe the whole team just needs a bit more experience/chemistry? Hell, just look at how he's improved Cato recently (I just cannot believe that Cato's done it all on his own - and those dunks ain't bein' instigated by Cato's playmaking skills). And look at how Mobley has become a real player since Steve's arrival? Griffin... That might take a little time, but I for one am drooling over the prospect of Steve banking 5-7 APG just off of him...

There are very few teams that would not kill to have him starting at the point right now.

 

Duhon would be the perfect fit.

He would instantly be the Rockets greatest defensive PG of all-time.

He is a true PG, has good shooting range, and is just flat out solid.

In a way, he's a 6 ft 4 Terrell Brandon, with better shooting range, and slightly better defense.

 

Last night the team, especially in the second half passed the ball out more than ever. KT, Cat, And Francis all passed out of penetrations etc. tonight when I think in the past they wouldn't have. Some of Francis' turnovers came from him trying to pass out when the pass wasn't there. I think if they keep passing like they did tonight they'll get better. The Iso game wasn't really that big a part of the game plan last night, and they used a lot more picks and dishes.

 

I definitely think that RT has to shoulder some of the blame for the nightly lapses into offensive funk. This is purely because between Francis and Mobley there is enough passing ability, scoring ability and speed to not have an extremely inefficient system. I do not know why we are not breaking as a team. That has to be the coach. That is why the stuff in the OP thread really frustrates me, especially the part about Langhi and Collier and the team doing dress rehearsals. How the hell can those two players be considered fairly treated when they probably fit the RT system better that the so called greyhounds. I am saying so because if you do not run, you do not need greyhounds. Those two players are probably two of out better midrange jump shooters and they cannot get a minute is a system that begs for midrange jumpers.

 

Lets see. Your main obejective is to drive and kick. Mobley and Francis are suppose to drive into the teeth and kick out for long jumpers, right? No backdoor cuts, no handoffs from the big men, no staggered or double screens, just drive and kick. Some people wonder why he and Cat make so many to's. The philosophy just plain sux.

 

I dont think you guys know what you're talking about. You;re being overly harsh because our team is bad, despite Steve's skill both as an athlete and a PG.

He is often the only player on our team trying to get others involved (hence the high turnovers - he tries to pass too much sometimes...GASP!), and has averaged 8 apg the last 6. He helps Cato's game a lot, often finds someone out on the perimeter for an open three (usually Mobley), and has become good at driving the lane and finding an open cutter (although granted, while I like that he is doing this more, he needs a few more months before he can do it consistently without forcing the issue too much, it takes time!).

Let's compare to Steve Nash's game last night, who I assume you think is smarter, or plays the PG position better. Nash, granted, has 1 more assist and fewer turnovers, but they both take the same number of shots. Further, at the end of the game I thought Nash was forcing the issue, but he did make the shots. Francis does that and you think he is a r****ded PG.

You switch Nash and Francis, and imo, the Rockets stay the same, the Mavericks get better. Put Steve on the Lakers and they would win every year for the next decade, put him on the Sixers and they're amazing...put him as a PG anywhere and he will play what that team's PG position requires. He is a smart basketball player, who somtimes forces the issue, but because he is good and is the player on our team who is suppossed to.

 

I'm sorry but I still think he runs the point better than we give him credit for. I believe Rudy needs to change his plays a bit though..... I honestly will blame mooche on tonights game... Sorry but the mooche is not worth all that money.