Oeilpere, what's with.......

Opie-What's the Rockets' stance on Rashard's pending free agency? Are they planning to seek him out full force (offer him full 6 year MCE and/or attempt to S/T) or wait and see? All things being equal, would the Rockets pursue Rashard or Raef Lafrentz this offseason?

Any thoughts on the PF debate? Is this recent move of KT to SF to get him a slot on the team for the future, or to get more time for Griffin now without sacrificing the chance to "showcase" KT as a cheap, valuable player?

Thanks for some more interesting insights.

 

Sounds like Denver's gonna need MoT in any potential swap. He could be the fix that makes any Raef or Dice deal go down... Haftabe.

How would they feel about taking on Rice's contract, just to make things work otherwise? Would Rice and MoT (and fodder) do it for them in either a McDyess or Raef swap?

(I am not asking our Nugz fans, so keep your comments - I'm asking OP)

Is that on the radar, OP?

 

excuse me?

 

how about a raef/lenard for MoT/walt/#2 deal? (is realgm up yet?)

you can replace lenard with cheaney or mccloud.

 

Those are doable in my mind...

 

1. I honestly don’t think that CD is working overtime to strip the present eight-man rotation from RT. That being said, he is a very alert and proficient trader and probably has a good idea of what is available and exactly the cost to the Rockets if they were to get involved. But he won’t let an excellent "once in a lifetime" opportunity go by if it’s available.

2. Raef is probably the guy from the NVE/Dice/RLaF trio that could be traded with the least amount of backlash and repercussions. Dice is the most longterm valuable of the trio and the teams that are scrambling to shore up their playoff run could really use the short to medium term Nick The Quick. But I still don’t think Denver will pull the trigger though. Have no idea why I think that today, call it a gut instinct.

3. Nugzfan: I should have put a smile in there somewhere. I was just funnin’ you and your exuberant Nugget colleagues. PS: I would take your deal but leave out the pick and I would prefer Calbert over Sura I think. But then we don't need CC. Any deal like that would be handed over to a third party with Sura or Cheaney or whatever is added being sent to say ... NY or Miami for a Mooch replacement ... Indiana (Rose) maybe a long shot, but why would they trade Mooch for Jalen Rose.

4. Hottoddie: as noted above (#1) I seriously doubt that CD will do anything to upset RT’s plan for maintaining the roster as is (for consistency and cohesiveness). However, your scenario is attractive and could work if the following happened (and BTW, I don’t think Denver would do it), Walt and Toronto’s number one for Raef and we take no Sura from GS. Basically an injured but contract ending veteran in Walt and a pick (probably #20-#23) which we would have tried to parlay on draft day anyway, for a guy the RT covets in Raef. As I said, Denver wouldn’t even entertain such a move,IMHO.

5. TreeHugger: Personally, the upside on Rice (leadership, pure shooter, experience, outside threat, inside drive) doesn’t offset the downside (his ridiculous contract and his inherent injuries), I would unload him whenever it wouldn’t hurt us too much. More importantly, the Rockets (with Les in driver’s seat) would unload his butt faster than you could say Scotty Pippen. But, the key is in your question about the receiving team –would any team accept Rice in the bargain? Good question. Rice and Walt would not get it done. We would have to include MoTay and as I said before I think RT would be resistant to that initially, he would have to be convinced and that would not be easy. It would also have to be an awfully big deal with guys like Dice and Raef from Denver, or maybe even Chandler and Curry from Chicago, or Keon and Davis from Toronto, etc … … that type of caliber players to make the decision palatable. I don’t foresee that happening. So my answer is, MoTay would have to almost certainly be included to land the DiceMan and maybe even Raef (although we have a better chance of getting Raef without MoTay) . But I don’t see MoTay going anywhere.

 

Op-
Considering the Rockets injury situation, it seems to me that the best thing to do would be to just remain patient and allow the rest of our players to heal. However, I fear and maybe fear is the wrong worried... I could imagine a situation in which MoT and Rice take away some of the trade value that we might have in KT(simply because of playing time). In my opinion, the best time to trade our pick along with KT would be right now. I really believe we will have a very good second half of the season. Hence, the pick will be somewhere around 10 to 17. I am in the financial services industry by trade and if KT and the pick were stocks in my portfolio, I would be thinking we might be nearing their peaks(short-term trade value).

What do you think about KT's trade value? An equivalent player would suffice.

 

yeah that woulda helped a little.

 

You think the Clipps would take a package including KT, Mooch, and the pick for Odom and McInnis?

 

Hottoddie-
I agree. He would definitely be part of a bigger trade. Perhaps involving Walt and our pick but we would be giving up entirely too much for Rashard in your suggestion. I recall an ESPN article stating how Rashard would like to come back home. I think we would be in the driver's seat if he would make more noise about returning this summer. However, I do believe TMo could be a similar player if given the opportunity and would be alot cheaper.

KT at this point, in my opinion, would not be a long-term solution to the small forward position. Mainly because of his inconsistent outside shooting. I believe his biggest problem is he is too indecisive when he receives the ball. The problem with having the ability to drive, shoot and post-up is having to decide which to do at any spesific time. I do not think he even knows what he is going to do most of the time. He needs a couple of "goto" moves. He has too many weapons in his arsenal but just does not use the right one at the right time.

 

OP, you seem to follow the Rockets party line pretty closely. By that, I mean you rarely criticize decisions and front office and coaching philosophies. (Exception of Walt duly noted, but that's a no-brainer) Maybe I just don't remember, but was the reason the Rockets picked up Rice in the first place just to get Shandon his money and demonstrate the value of their word? I know Rudy has said he has always liked Rice, but I felt he was damaged goods from the start and chances were that his contributions couldn't be expected to be significant. I still feel that way. If the Rockets really did think he would get healthy and revert to his former effectiveness, what the hell were they thinking?

You basically say they would trade him in a heartbeat if they could. Again, is this because they changed their mind about him, or due to acquiring him for all the wrong reasons in the first place?

 

Moe-
Very astute observation. I wanted to ask the same question. By thinking of that question we probably already know the answer. I would guess that it would be very important to keep your word in this business.(as with any other business) The answer might be found in the MoT contract. Rice will come off of our books after the 2004 season. I think we will sign an impact player before that because of our REPUTATION.

Then again. What do I know?

 

KT is worth a heck of a lot more now than last year. More now, than he did earlier this season.

Which begs the questions, how valuable is he, and if he is so valuable why trade him?


Value

IMHO, he will fetch somewhere around $4 -5 million a year - in dollar/trade table/ market value - especially if he continues to do what he is doing at the three spot and harassing at the four with his steps and hands. The problem with us is we have key areas that have to be addressed if we want to move forward next year. We can't just wait for everyone to improve and not make any changes to the roster or watch as our player blend gets stagnant while we are waiting (read that as losing). Note: I'm talking next year, not this year.


Why Trade KT?

We need MoTay back (or a similar facsimile) producing the kind of numbers that MoTay is slated to produce – 18 - 20/ppg with explosions of 24 – 26 every now and then - to even consider thinking about progressing next year. The thing that he brings to the table is something that KT can’t. Consistent threat at the four.

Let me explain. We have a quick game that is being exploited to its hilt right now. That is our game. The thing that is missing is a guy that will read the game well, demand the ball at times, a strong inside offensive player that can jump it at 15-16 feet consistently, take it inside at will, and generally threat at that position on almost every possession.

This opens up our “speed” game even more, and even gives us virtual perimeter carte blanche. Teams just cannot ignore that threat and stay with both Cat, Steve, and Griffin. KT does not do that. (We could even be charitable and say –YET.) I agree with MuMu, IMHO KT is getting close to the best game he can play and even when he gives that …. I fear we still won’t have that middle respect that MoTay has at the four.

Griffin you say? Yes he gives some of that now and will progress in leaps and bounds - but he is still young. Consistency comes from experience and with being able to read the opposition and temper the attack to what they give you. I love his game and man, he is no where near his zenith in talent. But we can’t hang our hopes on Griffin at the three (which they are talking about doing and he hates) or the four (which will be rostered by MoTay if anyone wants to be realistic about it).

On the surface of it Griffin at the four eliminates MoTay’s usefullness and the money we are paying him has to be spent elsewhere. But right now, EG can play an effective platoon at the four with MoTay(if he was healthy), he can play an effective three with MoTay at the four, and he can play in tandem with both he and MoTay on the floor at the same time. We don’t get that same dynamic from the Griffin-KT combos. It is just not there on most of the possessions. The end result is, we have to decide: Can we live with MoTay and Griffin and unload KT more easily than we can with KT and Griffin and unload MoTay?

This past season shows we need something other than KT and Griffin to make it work. That makes KT expendable, especially with an easy price tag and comfortable contract right now. Now if something phenomenal falls in our lap, like a Rashard Lewis – Maurice Taylor deal – mmmmm …. frankly I could live with a Maurice Taylorless team and a line up with - Steve, Cat, Rashard, Griffin and yes … Cato ..... with KT, TMo,Oscar in the wings.

But don’t start thinking in terms of Rashard Lewis being had for KT and a couple of fillers. Or thinking of the Rockets trying to or wanting to unload BOTH KT and MoTay for Lewis, they just won’t do that.

 

Please, OP, what do you mean by quick game or speed game? We have quick speedy players, but the game we play looks anything but that. We are absolutely awful at running the fast break.

Individually, our backcourt gives people trouble. But, most teams we play clog the middle quickly with the new rules and have taken away a lot of drives to the hoop. Sometimes we get the call and go to the free-throw line, but mostly we wind up shooting jumpers. I agree with what Motay brings offensively, but Kenny has been putting up numbers close to what you talked about Motay bringing. Plus, Kenny rebounds more and plays better defense. What is it that Motay brings that will get the guards to the rim more?

I agree that this offense is maxed out, regardless of what you call it. Jump shots will win you some games and it will lose you almost as many, which means you won't ever dominate with it. The Rockets have historically taken more three point shots than any other team. When we won the championships, the 3 pointers were mostly the result of kickouts by the best most dominate center in the game. We don't have that now, and zone rules have made that harder to set up off our great one-on-one players. Teams wisely clog the middle and give us the outside shot. I don't know where I'm going with this, other than I would like someone like yourself to convince me that this is an offense we can eventually dominate with. Thanks.

 

Originally Posted by oeilpere

Griffin you say? Yes he gives some of that now and will progress in leaps and bounds - but he is still young. Consistency comes from experience and with being able to read the opposition and temper the attack to what they give you. I love his game and man, he is no where near his zenith in talent. But we can’t hang our hopes on Griffin at the three (which they are talking about doing and he hates) or the four (which will be rostered by MoTay if anyone wants to be realistic about it).
----------------------------------------

OP:

While there is constant debate on this site regarding the position Griffin will play, your post seems to indicate that Griffin does not want to be a 3. Did I misinterpret your post?

So does he want to split time at the 4/5?


BobFinn* posted this week's NBA Conference call with Steve Francis.

I found it interesting that Steve referred to Griffin as the "intimidator in the middle for us" during this conference call interview.

Could KT be our long term solution at the 3? Could he at MoTay co-exist on the floor at the same time?

 

Moe-
Perimeter
I think the point is MoT's moves complements the other players on this team for this offense. For example, if one of the guards drives to the basket then MoT would be better at hitting the outside shot. It is basically more fluid. Imagine this scenario: Cat drives down the middle and is forced to pass the ball out.

Scenario one- MoT is positioned 14-18 feet out, open and shoots the open shot in one motion. Similar to a production line.

Scenario two: KT is positioned close to the three point line and receives the ball needing to make a move before shooting.

Analysis-
MoT stays covered if he is hitting the shot, opening the middle or it causes the the defense to work a little harder.(maybe just slightly, but it makes a difference).

In this case, the play with KT would be a series of individual moves. Cat makes a move, he is stopped and then passes it out to KT, KT then makes his move. Similar to stop and go traffic.


Post-up
MoT's post up moves are more dare I say traditional. Meaning the back to the basket turn around and occasionally a hook. Really one move. On the other hand, KT's post game is predicated on numerous moves. It is common to see KT stuck in between an outside shot and a post-up move.

KT is hard to predict. I notice alot of times the rest of the Rockets are forced to watch KT and are often out of position. I guess the word to best describe MoT is vanilla. Sometimes vanilla is the best flavor.

 

Big, there a couple of things in your scenarios that I don't see happening with any kind of consistency. The biggest thing is Cat being forced to pass the ball and making a good pass. How many times have you seen Cat make a good pass when he is forced to? For that matter, how many times have you seen Cat make a good pass when he is not force to? I know there have been a few, but that is not the norm.

Secondly, I don't see teams consistently leaving Motay open 14-18 feet from the basket, even when cutting off Cat's drive. Other teams are better than the Rockets at covering for a defender that slides to help another. By the way, I thought the Rockets played really good team defense last night. The problem last night was definately lack of scoring.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm still unconvinced that having Mo available all year would have made a significant difference in the "W" column.

 

I'm pretty sick of people talking about Taylor in all star senses. Explosion? What explosion are we talking about? This is the same guy while playing a man-man defense and Francis and Mobley blowing by people who avg 13pts a game. With the new hybrid zones, who says those numbers will go up?

I think Thomas is doing the same if not more than Taylor last yr. Its not like we're missing that little jump shot everyone like to talk about because at least Thomas stays out of foul trouble and has shown the knack for grabbing rebounds also. I do agree that for all its worth, Thomas trade value is as high as it will ever be and it might be a good chance to trade him if you're sure Griffin is the 4 of the future which everyone think he is. Although with his production you can't get value for him right now, he probably can be thrown in with another player to get a uality player or a draft pick.

It seems like everyday someone pulls Taylor out of their ass. Its amazing for a guy that did so little can be worth so much. Taylor is a career underacheiver just like Williams, Billy Owens, Augmon and guys like that. He hasn't shown anything that that would say he is turning the corner as a player. I mean, I'm not comapring him to Brand, but he was in La starting for 3yrs and still haven't found out how to rebs. He still plays lazy and last yr he was out of shape, slow and foul prone thats why he played 29minutes an night.

I really don't care how Griffin gets abused early or how many games we lose this yr. The chances of us making the playoffs are slim , but i'm no way implying a tank job, but this team needs to see what we have in Griffin, Morris, and Torres for future draft or free agent purposes. The way I see it now, Francis, Mobley,and Griffin are the blocks then after that we need to see what what we have in the other players.