I never understood the hype behind Prince's music. He's a great producer, but I just don't care for his singing/music.
How is she so influential? Because Britney Spears, Destiny's Child, etc. all claim her as one of their influences? And just because she is still popular doesn't mean she can't be overrated. She's overrated to me because she is judged by what she has done, not what she has made. The banned videos (Ex "Justify My Love", the famous affairs (Ex. Warren Beaty, Dennis Rodman, etc.), the raunchy songs with no meaning (Ex. Like a Virgin") will come up on people's list of what they know Madonna for before they come up with anything she has made worth remembering. I mean if she is such a great artist why hasn't she laid claim to a ton of Grammys or even nominations? I mean the first (and maybe only) Grammy she won was for a freaking video not a song (visual content not audio skills). I'm not saying all great artists have to win a Grammy but it is considered the top honor in the music biz so why hasn't she gotten their attention more? Her songs have no substance, people always talk about what a great artist she is but really...she isn't. Like I said she is a good marketer and great with marketing strategy but she has a so-so voice and makes so-so songs.
It's simple... BSB and *NSYNC... B Spears also... I mean it's not like they're talented but they get way too much fame. The must under rated star is Moby
Manny--in every musical post on the BBS you always seem to find an opportunity to bash pop music and remind everyone of the holiness of the type of music you listen to now, because you use to listen to people like Kid Rock and BSB so you would know bad music...
The crux of the problem is what BGM said...just exactly what constitutes an artist to be overrated? I was going by album sales which are a lot for artists like Backstreet Boys, N Sync, and even Madonna and Michael Jackson(pre-Dangerous). If you don't go by album sales, and you go just by critical acclaim, then maybe RM95 is right about Radiohead. Although I think Kid A is great, I didn't really get into Amnesiac like I thought I would. I can see why people would say that because it's the perception that Radiohead could do an album that consists of nothing but songs that are recorded backwards (like the one song on Amnesiac..."Spinning Plates" - I think is the song). I guarantee you that there would be people that would say, "that latest Radiohead album is just great!" So, yea, I think that is going to the extreme when you think an artist's s*it doesn't stink no matter what is on their CD.
People do try to dress or be like Madonna believe it or not. Like back in the 80's people wore the same crap as her, and now that she's an old hag, fellow old hags in her age range still try to dress like her to look young. This is my point, I don't think her music is influential, but Madonna herself as a pop icon is influential. She's managed to adjust with the times and "stay cool" while her male equivalent (Michael Jackson) is seen as a circus freak. That says something that she's still managed to be popular after so many years of performing. Like I said earlier, most people talk about Madonna and how she set trends and stayed popular and hip, not not on how amazing her music is... Anyway, it's pop music, it's not breakthrough music, it's pop music, critics bash pop music 9 times out of 10, so how is it overrated? If you want to say that she wasn't a trend setter and that her ability to stay popular after 20 years isn't that big of a deal, then I could see why you'd say she's overrated, but if you're going to say her music's overrated, then I want to know what critics praise her as a musical genius.
Just for clarifications sake, I will limit my selections to artists that I think are overrated AFTER they jumped the shark. This will eliminate the need to waste time why Pre-fab Pop sucks. 1. Metallica after ...and justice for all 2. Billy Joel, Elton John, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel and Paul McCartney...some where in the late 80's when they all stopped producing anything resembling original. 3. Soul Asylum..anybody remember that "Runaway" song? eeugh. 4. AeroSmith...got a second shot with "Walk this Way"..did absolutely nothing with it..except bank while annoying me constantly with Dodge Ram commercials. 5. De La Soul after Prince Paul left... 6. Pharcyde after Bizzare Ride to the Pharcyde 7. Roger Watters..lost it sometime while making "The Pros and Cons to Hitchhiking" 8. My alltime jumper...Robert Plant. That Cat should have stopped his Celtic wailing routine right after the split up of Zeppelin. "I'm in the mood for a melody, I'm in the mooood." Tragic. As far as alltime overated band? The Sex Pistols.
Sorry, SCF, didn't see your post until after I posted the above one. Yea, I guess I do come across as one who bashes pop music. But it's not that the music is bad...it really is pretty damn catchy. Max Martin, Dennis POP, Carlson, etc. - the group that writes most of the songs for BSB, N Sync, Britney Spears, etc. do a great job in coming up with songs for those artists. But all the songs sound alike...c'mon...Baby One More Time, Crazy, Lucky, and Oops I Did It Again all have same sounds that are used in all of those songs. There is just enough of a difference to make it into another song. I don't know if you remember Rick Astley. He was an English singer who had 2 #1's with his first 2 hits, "Never Gonna Give You Up" and "Together Forever". It's the same exact, damn song! Needless to say, Rick Astley would be a candidate on "where are they now?" You are talking to someone who grew up in the '80s where one-hit wonders were prevalent. But, I don't think that people are going to remember Falco, M, and Toni Basil compared to New Order, Depeche Mode, or Kraftwerk. So, I like music that is going to be remembered and has substenance. Even though I got stuff by Kid Rock, Matchbox 20, Limp Bizkit, Nine Days, etc., I just don't think that they will be remembered in 20 years like New Order, Depeche Mode, Kraftwerk, or even Joy Division. They are good bands but not influential ones , IMO. However, that is my opinion, if listening to pop music makes you or anyone else happy, then who cares what the f*ck I think or anyone else. It's your money and your time, not mine.
Festeral Otto, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree on metallica sucking after justice.., i have load, re load, S and M and the black album and i thoroughly enjoy them all. I dont know if people just turned them off after cliff died in the tragic bus crash but i have all the albums save kill them all and garage inc, and I like songs off of all of them. Heck my fav song, esp before sporting events is Enter Sandman from the black album and i know some may say a metal band playing with a symphony-that's whack but to me it accenuated many of the songs-in particular-until it sleeps, for whom the bell tolls, human, one and the thing that shouldnt be..i thought playing with the orchestra was a nice touch and to me it made them a complete band-not sellouts. As for load i like king nothing, aint my b****, until it sleeps among others, from reload-memory remains, devils dance, fuel are all good songs. Don't get me started about the black album, i practically liked the whole thing-it was their first album i ever bought. As far as my belief why Metallica exemplifies a great band, its simple-to me you have to produce great fast and slow songs to qualify as a great band and have awesome concerts. Metallica does both Dont get me wrong I like Korn, Limp Bizkit, etc, but they all typically use the same sound in all their music, and yes they do produce solid shows. Korn especially does this on Issues. As far as Metallica goes, fast songs i consider great music are Enter Sandman, Master of Puppets, Sanitarium, Battery, Of Wolf and Man, Battery, Thing that should not be, Until it Sleeps, For Whom the Bells Tolls and the list goes on. Then, they balance it out with songs like One, Fade to Black, Nothing else matters, Sad but true and Memory Remains and if you like instrumentals i love the Call of the Ktulu on the ride the lightning and S and M soundtracks. To me, Metallica has done anything but sellout us hardcore fans. I know some may blast me here, and vehemently state that a metal band should only play metal songs-fast paced. But i disagree. The time after justice for all, definitely brought a change in Metallica's style but one I respect them for doing and like it the same as the earlier music, and to be honest I think they deserve to be ranked up there with the great rock/metal bands in history such as Led Zeppelin, the Stones, the Beatles, because to me they are the epitomy of what great artists are as they produce great fast AND slow songs and produce outstanding live performances.
DVauthrin, I respect your view of Metallica..as obviously you are quite a fan. My reason for thinking that they lost it after And Just For All is that they seemed to lose the Raw energy that made them stand out above all other Heavy bands at that time. Metallica was appealing because they defied the notion that Rock and Roll was style over substance. They were pissed and not afraid to play that way. I had an interesting conversation with a buddy of mine that signed with Lars' label. He told me that when he first met Lars in L.A. he had the latest Metallica CD in his hand..apparently one of the PR people had given it to him. Lars walked up to him and grabbed the CD out of his hand and through it in the garbage and told him 'not to listen to that sh*%'. I was shocked and asked my buddy why Lars would continue to play with Metallica if he thought the music sucked. He said that Metallica was sooo big now that many peoples' livelyhood relyed on Metallica money. If they split the band up they would lose thier cash cow and many people would be out of work. I know me quoting a 'friend' is not exactly reliable information but it stands to explain why the band lost thier passion. Music is a personal taste...labeling a band a sellout is not very fair. Most band's have to make a deal with the devil in order to make it. That is the reality musicians face all the time. Some of the best can make it without compromise...but that doesn't mean they have the luxury of not compromising to stay on top.
i can understand that, festeral-i know a lot of people feel that way I guess having seen them live it doesnt seem their energy has gone away and man, although it sucked my sister and I went to a show and James couldnt play-the Dallas one, they still gave a solid performance, although yes I was disappointed I couldn't go back to the august makeup date. As for as how I became a fan, well my junior year in high school a buddy of mine loved Metallica and he played guitar decently. So whenever I went over to his house he would play their cds, the song that hooked me in fact was Enter Sandman, and it's still my personal favorite today especially with with the volume turned way up. Then he showed me nothing else matters and fade to black and i liked them too. So i went to napster-which i used for music downloads at the time and got all three songs and bought the black album first and to be honest thats probably my favorite album with master of puppets a close second. Then, the whole metallica-napster feud hit, but it didnt matter I was hooked, and to be honest I understood their position-why would you want to work for free. Myself, i do still buy cds-like in december i bought Nickelback's silver side up, but i have a burner and I know how easy napster makes it for someone to stop buying their music and just download the cd for free essentially. Yes, they had tons of money, but it feels like all your hard work is going to ruin and more importantly napster didn't ask them if they could take their music and put up for distribution. Big Problem. From there, I saw the dallas concert and while i was saddened i didn't get to see the real band play I thoughourly enjoyed the show. Right before then, i got master of puppets and S and M for my birthday and I still have both today. Since then, I have added load, reload,ride the lightning and justice to my collection and while I like some of them more than others, I def. would not return or giveaway any of them. I still wov to see them in concert the next time they come to Texas as I'm a sophomore at the University of Texas at Austin from katy(just west of houston), texas. I hope that gives a good explanation of how I became a big Metallica fan.
That doesn't surprise me. I'm not picking on you, Timing, but I would gather that many people probably don't know those bands. But they would know the bands that were influenced by those bands Kraftwerk, can be argued as one of the inventors of techno/electronica music along with Tangerine Dream, Jean-Michel Jarre, and Gary Numan. Here's more: http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1865628379/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/discography.html/frompage=related/artistid=KRAFTWERK/select=biography Joy Division was New Order before they became New Order . Led by Ian Curtis, they were heavily influenced by the Sex Pistols like most English bands of the late '70's. However, JD was more into putting keyboards into their punk songs (one of the reasons why they later became New Order). They became well-known for "mope rock". Their songs have been covered by Moby, NIN, and many more. 3 of their CDs that any JD fan would have would be "Substance", "Unknown Pleasures", and the brilliant posthumuous "Closer". Tragically, Curtis committed suicide, thus ending the band but leading the way to New Order. Remember, there would be no New Order without Joy Division. Some of the bands that they influenced include U2, Smashing Pumpkins, Jane's Addiction, and The Cure. Here's more on JD: http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1865628379/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/discography.html/frompage=music/ArtistID=JOY+DIVISION/select=biography
Actually, I think the main reason Joy Division became New Order was because Ian Curtis killed himself. And speaking of suicide (the act of self-murder), add Suicide (the NYC punk band) to the list of techno innovators. You make a great point about innovators being less famous in name, but very well heard due to their imitators. Going back to my favorite overrated artist, Madonna's Ray of Light was pretty much a rip-off of all the things Bjork had been doing (in particular, her Post album). Of course, Bjork is weird, speaks broken English and isn't the media slut that Madonna is. So guess who gets the hype? Unfortunately, music has become more and more visually oriented. When you look at the most popular artists of the last few years, you might notice that most of them are essentially attractive dancers who can somewhat hold a tune. Music is only a minor part of the package. More later . . . . I have a memo to write for work.
I generally tend to think that popl music altogether is overrated. But not all... For example, Britney Spears is young and attractive. But have any guys really looked at her THAT closely (Please don't start bashing me and think that I'm just a girl who doesn't like her)? Her eyes are close together, her nose is unattrative...there are things about her that people would find wrong if she was not famous. As for her music, it is all synthsized. She really does not have a wonderful voice. And she lip sync everything because she can't dance and sing at the same time. And she's not setting a great example for young girls. When I was 10 years old, I was not wearing tube tops and hot pants and platform shoes. It's not what 10 year old should wear. Hell, I'm 20 I and STILL don't wear a lot of that. On the other hand, when Pink performs (at least from what I've seen) she sings AND dances. That is more talent than Spears has. It would be so nice for artists to be seen as, well, artists. Voice, musical ability, composition, and even appearance perhaps should all be considered. Instead, good music is based on who sells the most albums and who makes the most money. Mozart was one of, if not the, greatest musician of all time, and he died penniless (although he receives recognition today). The people today who receive praise for their work are not the most talented. Charlotte Church has a beautiful voice, but she's not "hip" or mainstream so she doesn't get all the recognition she deserves. Many of the most talented people, when looked at closely, are not the ones who are popular.
First, thanks to all the people who stood up for Madonna. Lets see. Madonna has written or i guess co-written (at least according to cdnow): Lucky Star, Burning Up, Into the Groove, Live to Tell, Like a Prayer, Express Yourself, Cherish, Vogue, Rescue Me, Deeper and Deeper, Human Nature, Erotica, The Power of Good-bye, Beautiful Stranger, Frozen, Take a Bow (w/ Babyface), Ray of Light, Don't Tell Me, and Music. Now whether or not you personally like that music is up to you but I would call that a pretty impressive collection. No classic songs? Like a Virgin was voted the #4 Pop song of all time by MTV/Rollingstone. Like a Prayer was critically well acclaimed as far as I know along with the whole album. People still call her the Material Girl from a song that is 17 years old. Her songs are all over 80's radio. Just because she has not influenced any artist you like, doesn't mean it doesn't count. Even beyond the obvious Britney Spears/all the other pop girls stuff many artists show incredible admiration for what Madonna has done and her influence is not lost on the rest of the industry. Someone said how come she hasn't won any grammy's (except for one for a video). Well I could be wrong, but I believe she has 4 (oops, she doesn't have 4, she has 5) and I know she won Best Pop Album for Ray of Light. What else? Her videos have been some of the biggest and most respected of all time. She probably is the biggest video artist ever. On VH1's countdown she had 7 of the top 100, including 2 in the top 10. On MTV's she had at least 5 including 2 separate videos in the top 10. Like a Prayer is an amazing video (who else could dance in front of burning crosses and make it come off good). What else? Oh yeah, she has 12 number 1 hits, is 58x platinum and still has a successful career going on 19 years. Overrated, I don't think so.
Her albums actually seem to do suprisingly well when you consider how many people probably don't know who she is (of course I'm not one of those buying the albums).
