I read the blurb in the Chronicle this morning about Francis possibly (we know that it is for sure now) going to the all star game and how he said it was a steppingstone for the franchise because he could do it for a while and Eddie would do it for the next 12 years (he was obviously half-joking). Then, tonight, we hear how psyched Francis is to be going to the all star game. No surprise. Here's the part that I wonder about. Will this help keep Francis a Rocket when he becomes a free agent? It might. Consider that he wasn't picked by the coaches but by THE FANS. That demonstrates that he isn't toiling in anonymity here in Houston. The fans still recognize him here and that is even with him missing 20+ games due to injury! That has to be a good sign to a guy who, as whispered by some (although very unspecifically), may have been looking to move to a team with a bigger spotlight (DC anyone?). I just think it can't hurt.
If you're going to ask, "will this keep Francis a Rocket"....I have to ask -- "if Francis doesn't want to stay a Rocket, do we care?" I mean, if the guy is really thinking about jumping ship (I've heard nothing to indicate that he is), why would we want him? The odds that he's going to ever lead this team to a title are super slim, so would it really be that big of a loss? Let me say that I want Francis to remain a Rocket. However, if he doesn't want to be here, I'd have no problem with him leaving.
I wasn't suggesting that he was going to leave. I was saying that IF (and that's a big IF) he was worried about not getting any spotlight in Houston as compared to playing with Jordan or in NYC or someplace like that, this might help to change that perception. As for your assertion that he won't be able to lead us to a title, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. If that is the case, we should just trade him now and get it over with because he is the guy the team is hanging their future on.
I've never understood this mindset...unless a player is myopically commited to spending his entire career with your team, ship the bum out...If he decides that, for his own reasons, he'd rather be somewhere else, that immediately negates his value to the team? Isn"t it human to consider your options...Why do we think that it's only natural for a Rashard Lewis to ponder returning to his hometown, but if Stevie does the same thing, we don't want him anyways? And Freak, if the point of your thread was more that he's not that valuable to begin with, so his departure wouldn't be a big deal, I apologize. I don't agree, but in that case this post isn't directed towards yourself, but to the legion others who do express the opinion I've cited...
I said the chances of him leading us to a title are super slim. You disagree? There are 29 teams in the league. Francis will have passed his prime most likely in 7 years, max. The percentages say that the chances of him leading the Rockets to a title are not good. Do you disagree? My feeling is that if a player wants to leave because "he doesn't think he has a chance to win" with the Rockets, then he's not worth pinning your hopes on. The great ones don't jump ship to ride coattails elsewhere. Now, if a player leaves to go to a lesser team "just to be closer to home", then that's a different story. I stated that I wanted him to remain a Rocket. I think he's valuable. But when you think about it, the guys that have won titles have immediately made a huge impact upon entering the league (Bird, Magic, Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq). Francis really didn't do anything close to what those guys did in his first few years. That's why I think the odds of him leading us to a title are slim. However, I see no reason to get rid of him, unless he wants to leave.
I disagree on several points. First, saying he will pass his prime in 7 years (max) is making predictions that you cannot know. Second, I agree that the sheer percentage chances of the Rockets winning a championship are slim but no more slim, statistically speaking, than any other team in the league. From a purely statistical standpoint, every team has the same opportunity to make it to a championship at the beginning of the season. They may not have the players, but they all have exactly the same statistical odds. But, I know that isn't what you really meant. You meant that Francis wasn't good enough to lead us there which is why you suggested that he hasn't had an impact and that leads me to my third disagreement... Excluding Magic, who was a freak of nature, what did the other guys do that was so much different from Francis? Duncan made it to the finals mainly because he was drafted onto a team only one season removed from going deep into the playoffs. Olajuwon had a great rookie but his first few years were arguably no more dominant than Francis. It took him three years on a VERY deep and solid team to get to the finals. Just take these numbers from his rookie season: * Named the 1999-2000 Schick NBA Co-Rookie of the Year, sharing honors with Chicago's Elton Brand * Led Houston with averages of 18.0 points, 6.6 assists and 1.53 steals in his first season, becoming the first Rockets rookie to lead his team in all of these categories * Honored as a unanimous selection on the Schick All-Rookie First Team after being named the Schick Rookie of the Month three times * Led his rookie class in assists and ranked second in scoring * Became the first player in franchise history to register 400 rebounds and 500 assists in the same season, reaching both of these marks at Phoenix on April 18, 2000 * Set the Rockets rookie record for assists in a season * On Jan. 24, 2000, became the first rookie in franchise history to win NBA Player of the Week * Finished as the runner-up to Vince Carter in the NBA.com Slam Dunk Contest. How does that not compare favorably to Jordan, Bird, Olajuwon, etc? If we could argue for the moment that Francis is at least as talented as Isaiah Thomas (which, he no doubt will be), then it is conceivable that Francis has every bit the chance Zeke did to lead his team to the finals. You'll have to actually come up with some numbers to back up the <i>"But when you think about it, the guys that have won titles have immediately made a huge impact upon entering the league"</i> statement because saying Francis just hasn't had the impact on the league others have had before him isn't enough. Did he have less of an impact than Kobe or Garnett, for example? I just don't see it.
I disagree. First of all, he might have more than 7 years to really be past his prime, but that is not my point. I think that Francis has the potential to lead a team to a title, plus some nice talent is developing around him so that there might not be that many missing pieces to the puzzle, actually. In my humble opinion, there aren't 29 players in the league who have that same potential that he does and some of those who might have similar potential do not have similarly talented players like Griffin, Mobley, and to a lesser degree Taylor and a couple of other solid guys around them. But it is just my personal opinion that there are not 28 players in the league who have more potential to lead their team to titles than him and you don't seem to share that opinion. In fact, you don't seem to particularly like him. Please correct me if my impression is wrong. Correct me if I am wrong, but Jordan, Hakeem and Shaq at least did not win a title in their first few years in the league.
<B>My feeling is that if a player wants to leave because "he doesn't think he has a chance to win" with the Rockets, then he's not worth pinning your hopes on. The great ones don't jump ship to ride coattails elsewhere. Now, if a player leaves to go to a lesser team "just to be closer to home", then that's a different story. </B> Is Hakeem not a great one?
Freak your lucky and don't have speak and type. All I can say in a reasonable amount of time, is that I totaly disagree with you.
Hell yeah I disagree! First, I disagree with your numbers. There may be 29 teams in the league, but over half of them are irrelevant - because they won't make the playoffs or are easy pickings for another team in the first round. Therefore, the only teams that count are playoff teams that make it to the second round. That's 7 teams other than the Rockets. 1 out of 8 is a lot better than 1 out of 29, no? If you want to go further down that road, you can say that you only have to finish in the middle of the pack or better in the regular season and then beat four teams in the playoffs. If I agree with your 7 years number, then Steve has 5 chances to lead the Rockets to a championship. The first will be the 03-04 season. Why? The Rockets will have playoff experience and three deadly offensive threats (Steve, Cat, and Griffin). Their chances get even better after that, with more experience under their belts. Not to mention, Shaq will be getting older =) From an organizational point of view, building a championship team is very difficult, but the hardest part of it is obtaining the franchise level player who will make the game easier for the other players. Steve has proven that he can be that guy. Most people will agree that you don't win championships without a guy who is one of the top players in the league. Steve can be that guy for us, and Griffin has even more potential. You may call our chances slim if you wish, but I like them...I like them a lot.
Just wanted to point out that you should include Larry Legend along with Magic as a "Freak of Nature" In college, Bird carried lightly regarded Indiana State to the NCAA final.<b> In the pros, he turned a 29-53 Boston Celtics team to a 61-21 club as a rookie.</b> He took the Celtics to three championships in the 1980s, bringing fans back to Boston Garden in the process.
Good lord, where to begin... Absolutely you can know this. Just take the averages for every player in the league for their entire career, and see when they start to decline. My bet is they decline by their 10th year (at the latest, if the player makes it that far). I was being conservative there with the 7 year thing. Yes, statistically, they have the same odds. But we all know that the odds are actually less. For instance, the odds that the Warriors are going to win a title are actually less than the Lakers. My point was that the odds that the Rockets will win a title during Francis' career are extremely low. There is no evidence to convince me otherwise. History as well as sheer statistics are both against it. Well, Bird was the #2 pick in the draft, and led his team to the Finals in his 2nd year. Francis didn't do that. Duncan, while he did have some talent, still led his team to a championship in his 2nd year. Olajuwon led his team to the finals in his second year. Magic's team won the championship in his rookie year, and he started at center and scored 42 points in the decisive game. Shaq went to the finals in what, his third year? I remember Jordan scoring 63 points in the playoffs in his second or third year against the Celtics. I'd say all of them did considerably more that what Francis has done thus far. As far as Isiah, he's an anomaly, as I've always said. I'll have to respond to the rest of you tomorrow. I go to bed early now, I'm getting old.
Yeah, but the Rockets a Dave Cowens or Cedric Maxwell on their team. Plus, it was only a year later that the Celtics got McHale and Parrish in what may be the best trade in the history of the NBA. That isn't taking anything away from Larry Legend. The guy was a sick, SICK player.
The same goes for some of your posts when they have a tendency to be overly critical or pessimistic regarding Stevie Francis .
Franchise by himself. Maybe not. Franchise with a mature Griffin. Ask Calvin and he'll say "I like the odds my brother."
You are a sicko. Anyways Jeff, why do you say DC is more high profile then us? Isnt Houston one of the best cities for athletes? The only team more popular then us should be NY, LA and Chicago. I know our attendance at home is not good, but I think Rockets overall are still a popular team.
