What's wrong with communism in China? A post to Blake.

D&D material

 

Learn where to post, rookie.

 

Aside from this being in the wrong forum, what's your point?

 

We have a forum for political discussions, D&D. I would suggest you take it there.

 

Why not restrict this to PM? Why do you feel we would like to see this in GARM?

 

Look back @ what happened during the cultural revolution to see what's wrong with communism in China. Today is much better because the government is not communist at all. There are still tons of problems like corrupt officials, the uneducated majority, the wide divide between the rich and the poor, etc....

 

wrong forum. There are lots of other places for you to discuss politics bull ****....

 

wrong forum. Keep this crap in the right place.

 

Oh mine mine...what's wrong with the 'Downtown' dude in that thread? The moron can't even think straight.

 

The only way communism could work is is without the human element of greed. Good luck trying to get rid of that attribute.

 

Capitalism = Getting f#*ked by the powers that be thru their lobbyists via "elected" officials, and not even knowing it...

Communism = Getting f#*ked by the same exact powers that be as above thru imposed party officials, and damn well knowing it...

Socialism = Getting f#*ked by hot as can be local Norwegian/Swedish/Danish/Finnish chicks and not giving a damn about what or what not the government does to u

 

Greed is part of human nature and people get mad when they see other people getting the same for less work.

 

First off, who is Blake?

Anyway for a call for a civil and intellectual discussion you sure use some inflamattory rhetoric.

Good but perhaps you might want to refrain from calling something "ungodly" which is generally considered a slur.

This is quite a stretch as the primary theory of modern statehood, especially in democracies, considers a state as social contract vs. a slavery institution. While yes the state wields power the understanding is that the function and existence of the state is due to the collective necessity of providing for common security. In fact that is specifically why the preamble to the Constitution begins with "We the people.." to make it clear that the state isn't something forced on the people but a construct of the people. Even those godless Chinese understood this almost 3,000 years ago when Confucious pointed out that a good ruler will have a good rule and the people will benefit where as a bad ruler will have a bad rule and there will be strife and rebellions.

If you are arguing that the two parties have thwarted democracy while some might think that way I think this election debunks that. While the party are institutions unto themselves they also are democractic (small 'd'). Take Barack Obama's campaign as it started as an insurgent campaign and is now likely to capture the democractic nomination thanks to a record turnout, and I say that as someone who has been supporting Hillary Clinton since it became a two person race. On the Republican side John McCain isn't the darling of many of the power brokers and alienates many of its most ardent supporters and yet he is going to the Republican nominee.

Again the use of the term ungodly is fairly inflamatory as it is stating not just that God doesn't play a role in the country but that the country is opposed to God. The first problem with that is that you are confusing religion with God. While the PRC might not be based on religion that doesn't mean that there is no God there. Obviously this is a metaphysical question but one with important meaning when you start throwing around the terms ungodly or godless. The next issue is when trying to set up a comparison between the socalled godly country of the US vs the ungodly PRC is that its a mistaken comparison. Other than one line in the Declaration of Independence religion plays as much of an official role in the founding of the US as it does in the PRC. As much as some people might like to claim it the Constitution isn't a Christian document or based on Christianity. If anything it owes much much more to pagan ancient Greece. I would even go so far as to say it is anti-thetical to Christianity in that a document that guarentees free practice of religion goes against the First Commandment, "Thou shalt have no other God but me."

While many of the founders where Christian, a few very devout, several didn't consider themselves Christian except in terms of background some like Thomas Jefferson even expressed doubts about Christianity as it was understood at the time. The founders of the PRC weren't Christian but had a cultural background with religions like Buddhism and Taoism. While they became antithetical to religion its not like they weren't aware of it or came from a background with it.

Agreed and as a start I would say be more careful with your terms.

 

Paradoxically:

Godless communism requires a general sense of goodwill by all men.

Godly democratic republics recognize the weaknesses and motivations of the reality of men.

Communism is a Utopian ideal that could never be realized. China was never communist, the USSR was never communist; they were/are authoritarian socialistic states. The problem with authoritarian states is there is no outlet for public criticism, free speech or public accountability.

It can certainly be argued that western democratic republics are not very democratic. The two party system in the US is the result of coalescing into the lowest common denominators...us and them. But as long as the right to free speech is sacred, at least there is outlet for criticism and accountability (free speech including the right to sue in the public courts, assemble, picket and receive full protection while doing so)

If anyone has any question as to why the Bush Administration is so reviled, and why there has been such a huge swing in the pendulum of public opinion, just re-read that paragraph.

But what chance is there that dissatisfaction can ever change the course of government in China? The changes in industrialization and standard of living does not mean the autocratic system is changing. On the contrary, raising the standard of living while controlling free speech further entrenches the autocrats.

 

In its early stages, Russia was idealistically Communist. They look towards the unlimited potential of science to create their ideal state. It had some success with micromanagement from its capitol, but once those successes transfered onto the middle class, there were too many choices and decisions that magnified into chaos from within Moscow. Forcing 100 million people to choose between 2 toothpaste brands is wildly confusing once there are 5 to choose from.