Just for grins -- how many out there would trade Stevie Franchise for Andre Miller (now) and Chris Mihm or Cleveland's #1 (Rocket's choice at season's end)?
That's a tough call. Miller is by far the better passer, but not as dominant a scorer as Francis. However, Andre does have an excellent post up game for a PG, and he uses that to set up the Cavs offense. However, it is difficult to tell how much of Miller's numbers are through sheer talent, and how much is just him playing on a bad team. For that reason, I wouldn't do this deal.
Uh oh, big mistake....."trade" and "francis" are in the same sentence again. Here comes TroyBaros and the rest of them.....
Lets see... We are a playoff team with Francis... We are one of the worst teams without Francis. Francis is a great player... Miller hasn't showed me that he is great player. Mihms is an average center...I wouldn't trade one of the top 10 players in the league (francis) for a good point guard and an okay center.
It'd be a tough call. I've heard that Mihm is soft, but if they were to substitute a healthy Diop for Mihm, I might be tempted to pull the trigger. Miller/Diop for Francis? Hmmmmm.......
The kicker for you, Rockets03, then would be Cleveland's #1, which could produce a really nice player or their #1 could be coupled with Houston's #1 to get a really, really nice player (Ming?).
But we already have "a really really nice player" in Francis. I dont want a high draft pick and then wait 2 to three more years to see him develop. I want to make the playoffs now! I know we wont make it this season, but even next year I dont see the Rockets keeping our lottery pick. We are one veteran, tough big man (not a superstar) away from making the playoffs. I think the Rockets are going to try to get that player before next season starts.
Remember, this is a "just for grins" speculation. I would have to think long and hard before pulling the trigger if at all. However, that said, having Andre Miller and Yao Ming as Rockets in place of Steve would not exactly be tantamount to chopped liver. Think of a front line consisting of Mo Taylor, Ming and the Griffin with Andre Miller feeding them and Mobley or Rice to take the big shots.
Just let the core of this team stay together and learn..Francis, Griffin, and to a lesser extend Mobley and Mo T. DaDakota
I would conside the trade if it was Miller, Mihm plus a first rounder or as others have mentioned Miller & Diop. Miller is a nice player, he's no franchise but he may be a better PG.
No-way!! Stevie is fine, and the rotation of him, Cuttino and Mookie has to be one of the better ones in the league. Miller and Mihm is not worth it. Give this team some time, it will be back. With Eddie Griffin, who's alot like Duncan and Mo Taylor is also pretty solid. Cato will get better, I think he will become 12ppg and 10rb when that front line plays together next year, I believe he just needs help. Look at the Clippers, Olawakandi(???) is a little better with Elton and Lamar playing together with him. Besides, Cato will be here for another 3-4 years anyway so lets get used to it. Let's keep this team together guys, fill in with some athletic guys and give Rudy T a year or two and watch out. Houston Rockets 03-04 World Champions
Wow, I thought DaDakota would be all for trading for Andre Miller. You always compare him and Francis, with Miller being the example. Unfortunately, Miller will never become the scorer that Francis is, but Francis may very well become a brilliant passer (see Gary Payton). On a side note, I can guarantee that Rudy, Dawson, and Les Alexander will all onject to that trade. Rudy, obviously because he loves Francis. Dawson, because Mihm isn't that good, and a draft pick is a gamble, so the deals don't guarantee returned value. Alexander, because fans would rather see Steve Francis, not Andre Miller.
Judging by our attendance, Rockets fans aren't too interested in seeing Francis as much as they're interested in seeing a winning or even entertaining product. So that argument about people wanting to see Francis over Miller is weak. We'd rather see an entertaining winner over any particular player. I think we've all seen in New Jersey how dramatically a passing point guard can change a team that was formerly run by a scoring point guard. I'm not saying Miller would do that here but to say that Francis is worth more because he scores 20 points/6 assists on a lottery team as opposed to Miller scoring 16 points/10 assists on a lottery team is just a bad argument. Miller doesn't have Stevie's flash but he's a hell of a point guard and I would trade Steve for Miller and a pick if there was someone on the draft board I really liked in the form of a Gasol or Eddie Griffin type player. Of course Rudy would then have to devise an actual offense that doesn't revolve around high pick and rolls and iso's so it's a moot point.
Sane, that is a sane answer! I don't think it's a viable trade either. I just wanted to see what others thought about this possible scenario. I have a close friend that lives south of Cleveland who was proposing the scenario to me.
If I didn't think Andre Miller was so mediocre (watching him get outclassed by the better point guards has proven it to me), then it would be a plausible trade, if you base your argument on assumptions.... Unfortunately, Miller's presence has done nothing to improve that Cavs team. He's an above average passer, but his assists numbers this year (the jump from 8 to 10 apg) are more a result of the system Lucas has implemented. What Lucas has tried to do is exploit the talents of Lamond Murray, Wesley Person, Jumaine Jones, Ricky Jones, etc.... basically the entirity of their plethora of wing men. He does this by running them around double baseline screens. Miller simply hits them coming off screens. Point being, his assists are more a testament to the system in place, not to his passing ability. He's not a Kidd, who made Shawn Marion a more effective player and is doing the same this year with Martin, Jefferson, and Macullough. Miller hasn't spurred improvement in any teammate or the team as a whole. His offensive game scares me as well, especially in the fact that he shoots flat-footed (no elevation on his shot), which is why his outside shot, beyond 15-17 feet, is so bad. Assumptions There's just too many assumptions you have to accept as being true before you would trade Francis. You're assuming that his headaches will continue for more than a year and a half. You're assuming that he won't resign. You're assuming that the eastern conference team (I can't see him complying with a trade to a western conference team) you'd deal with can put forth a legimate offer. You're assuming Griffin becomes a superstar and can excel without a great guard. You're assuming that you can find a starter quality point guard in the draft with the pick you'd likely receive. That's just too many assumptions for my liking, and I , like many, am of the belief that the team getting the star, as opposed to the team getting a bunch of 'good players', always wins in the end, and the trades proposed that do swap star for star (ie: Francis for Nowitzki), are the ones that would never happen. Besides that, I just can't see him turning down an extension this summer. Money talks, and he has less reason to leave than Webber did last summer (ie: Webber didn't want to go to Sac in the first place and had no real attachment to that team). I'd also like to think the Rockets organization would let this team be on the floor together for more than 10 games before breaking them up.
