I brought this subject up because of the ESPY Awards. I would like to know what all these sports people base their opinions on to put Jordan at such high status. Could it be records well let's see, unless you really breakdown all the statistics Jordan only holds three records (6 Finals MVPs, highest career scoring average, and highest point total in a playoff game). Could it be career statistics...absolutely not Jordan is outshadowed in every statistical category not already mentioned. People think wow Jordan won 6 titles that is a lot, well people what do you think of 11 or 12 titles? Bill Russell won 11 titles with the Celtics and K.C. Jones won 10 titles as a player and two as a coach. In point total he can kiss both Chamberlain and Kareem's asses and he is behind K. Malone as well. In any other statistical category he is way below anybody at the top to mention. What about off the court efforts. Well let's take Houston's Hakeem Olajuwon. He makes sure his shoes are $35 or less so less fortunate children can afford them, donates his time so that his autograph can be sold at a reasonable price (I paid $40 for mine with a picture of him signing it and I saw Michael's going for $615 ON QVC), and many other things I could mention. Hell, Hakeem goes through Ramadan while still playing the game. Then some people talk about his spectactular shots and dunks but plenty of people have done these sorts of things and in fact Vince Carter is doing some things that Jordan only wished he could do during his career. I mean what made this man so great that almost everybody in the sports biz worships him? Everything he did had been done before or is being done better now. If anybody has anything to say about this just post a response and I will bet that I can give you an example of where Jordan is outshadowed.
first of all, i agree with you BUT! this topic has been in here before and has been played out! trust me, jordan worshipers cannot be convinced otherwise. btw, this is also in the wrong thread! we're supposed to be talking Rockets in here...
Lil Pun, This topic is played. You can argue Ali was not the greatest also. ------------------ Live Rocketball. Breathe Rocketball. Die with Rocketball.
MJ is the greatest player to play in the NBA, hands down. He may not be the best defensive player, the best passer, the best shooter, the best dunker, the best rebounder, or the best handler. The point is that nobody comes close when you put all of these particular facets of skills together. Also, MJ dominated in an era where the NBA was the most competitive. Wilt and Bill were hardly ever challenged size wise or athleticly. Jordan has been the only player in the last ten years that could not be stopped by anyone in the league (but Max did guard him well). Anyway about the espy's this is my team of the decaede: pg-Stockton (even though I hate him) sg-Jordan sf-Quitten pf-Malone c- Olajuwon
Lil Pun, It was not wise of you to write this post because blind to fact Jordan followers will always gets steamed when they read this thread especially the one and only Almu. Plus everyone knows Manute Bol was the best of all time.
Mantronix, As you can see, I edited my response. I was going to call you something that might get me banded. But, I edited the post and figured that most of us that have been here for 3 or so years have seen your type. I know you can't help but to take shots at me. Its probably in your genetic code or something. Nothing like picking on someones reputation when yours is a piece of sh8t. Carry on. ------------------ Live Rocketball. Breathe Rocketball. Die with Rocketball. [This message has been edited by Almu (edited February 14, 2000).]
Let me start by saying that I believe that Jordan is the best player ever. Did he get some calls? Of course. Does Malone, Stockton, Kobe, Shaq, Grant Hill get calls? Of course. Do I believe that Olajuwon never got his fair share of calls? Of course. However, none of the players I listed are good because of the favorable calls they may have received. They are just good period. A case can be made for any number of NBA players regarding the best all-time. Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell, Olajuwon, Kareem, Robertson, West, etc. So just because I, or Almu, or anyone else believes that Jordan is the best does not mean that we were brainwashed by the Nike and Gatorade corporations. We base our decision on the fact that he led the Bulls to six championships in six seasons that he played. He led the league in scoring for numerous years. He did some very amazing things in the air. For whatever reason, some look at Jordan, and see a "666" on his forehead that others do not. I don't understand it. You never hear a Jordan defender call Wilt or Russell the Devil (sure we all call Malone the devil). The fact of it is, if you're sick and tired of seeing all the pub that Jordan gets, or of the four commercials in a row that he's in, that's fine. But you can't argue that he's not ONE of the best players ever.
But I can say not argue he is not the best of all time and calls do matter otherwise why would the refs even show up if the calls dont matter. Think about it? What's with the 666 stuff no one was talking about the number of false calls Jordan received every year 6 hundred and 66. [This message has been edited by mantronix (edited February 15, 2000).]
utballer: actually jordan dominated after the expansion and the talent level overall around the league dropped. most competetive era? did you not see the 80's? magic's lakers, birds celtics, dr j's 76ers, and the detroit pistons. michael dominated after all these teams were gone. he would NOT have won 6 rings against that talent pool. would he have won rings? probably. but not that many in that many years against these guys.
Mantronix, I can't play you one on one. I am afraid of great ballers like yourself! I bow and beg for forgiveness! [This message has been edited by Almu (edited February 15, 2000).]
"He may not of been the best defensive player, best passer, best shooter, best dunker, best rebounder, or best ball handler" What if Jordan averaged 31 points and 10 boards, and 10 assists, while being one of the top defenders in the league? Would there be any doubt about your all around superiority? What if you were the inventor of the Quadruple double? Well thats what Big O did, and came within miniscules of doing 4 other seasons. He was also a shooting guard. What if the NBA changed the dimensions of the floor just because of how Jordan played. Lets say something like they raised the rim. What if they started making up rules about dunking and invent a new rule about offensive and defensive goaltending because of Jordan? What if Jordan actually could average 50 points a season, or grab 25 boards a game? Oh thats right Wilt was a center so he should lead the league in rebounds. Did I mention that Wilt also lead the league in assists? Hows that for versatility? What if Jordan actually scored 100 points or grabed 55 boards in a game? oops forgot he's not a center. What if he dished out 55 dimes in a game. And people go haywire when he scored a measly (in comparison to a 100) 63. Now Jordan has his place in history as one of the best. Probabaly 3rd on my list. But its all about the most recent great player. Note: These are the opinions of Dreamshake and are only opinions. They can not be reproduced or replayed without the absolute written permission of the cc.net.
i agree with you pun, because i was the one who started the thread in here last time. wilt chamberlain is the greatest basketball player of all time,did anyone know they made the rule where you had to stay behind the free throw line when you shot because wilt you used to jump from there and dunk on numerous occasions? ------------------ johnny "red" kerr:i'm glad the bulls did'nt draft steve francis. dan roan: why!!!!! johnny red kerr:because he would forever be compared to michael jordan. [This message has been edited by brahma rocket (edited February 16, 2000).]
I hate Jordon. I hate the Bulls. However, it is a freaking fact that Micheal was perfection. DID YOU EVER SEE HIM LIVE????? Hakeem devotes almost a damn chapter in his book to how good Michael Jordon was. Stats don't mean crap, and if you think differently you're wrong. He was the ultimate winner. Maybe Wilt....but probably not. Did Jordon suck? Yes...who could like a guy like that? He's like that kid who always made the highest grade in the class on every test.
Almu, If you have something to write you should have wrote it I don't mind hearing what you have to say. You should have just bleeped out the curse words I think I would have been able to figure it out. Maybe you would like to settle this outside, On the basketball court that is but only on one condition you cant get all the breaks like what's his name.
Now I know where you got your name LilPun. Its takes a little man to say Jordan isnt the greatest. Stop being jealous and just marvel at his greatness. Your knowledge of the game comes into question when you talk of Jordan not being the greatest of all time. Please Spare me and all these good people your babble. ------------------ Stevie Wonder says "they call him FRANCHISE because his dunks are for sale at an arena near you."
Like a lot of other sports discussions, this is an impossible argument to resolve. You can only play against the people who are there at the time, so who's to say what would have happened if Jordan's peak coincided with Magic and Bird, or to guess at how dominating Wilt would have been against a greater physical presence. We all have our reasons for our respective decisions, I'll always have a soft spot for Larry Bird, who never looked like a player, physically, but won his fair share of titles, and so on. For my money, Jordan is a great player, but not MY greatest player. There isn't a single greatest at anything, but it sure makes an interesting discussion. Not sure whether it merits all of the vitriol being thrown about though.
I agree with GBRocksfan, this is impossible to resolve. But MJ, as a guard....which is quintessentially the hardest position to dominate in....has revolutionized the game again. The man was truly gifted, and definitely one of the best, if not the best, player ever to suit up. Wilt was a man among boys in his day, as was Russell and a few others. But with today's athleticism, explosiveness, and quality of players, you have to plead a case for him.
Why oh why did I open this thread? Topics like this are completely pointless for this reason; once you form an opinion on a matter like who's the best at something, religious preference, or political party affiliation, it ususally does not change without out putting a gun to the side of someone's head (sometimes that doesn't even work). ------------------ The truth is out there.
Anyone who tolerates both Rodman and Quitten for three seasons and can LEAD those two jerks to three championships must be the greatest.
Dreamshake, Great point about rule changes based on ones game, that is why SIR CHARLES BARKLEY is the greatest player of all time.
