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Signs of Progress... anyone?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Major, Jan 16, 2002.

  1. Major

    Major Member

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    OK, take a look at this team from 2 years to last year to this year. A large "core" has been together for quite a while now -- Francis, Mobley, Thomas, Cato, Moochie, Williams. Yeah, there are slightly changing parts, but that happens on most teams every year. by now, these 6 players should know how to play well together.

    My question is simple: Does anyone see any progress in these guys? Are they playing any better than they did last year or two years ago? Not necessarily in terms of wins -- we obviously lost some parts and such -- but in terms of actually trusting teammates, chemistry, feeding off each other, etc.

    To be honest, I don't see any improvement - NONE whatsoever. For the last two years, they figure something out, pass and play smoothly, win for a while, then regress. They take two steps forward and then two steps backward.

    I'm beginning to think we simply have a "not-so-bright" team. The players still think one-on-one is the way to win, even though it rarely works. They don't trust each other (or themselves) enough to make passes. It's really like we're going in circles. Eddie Griffin appears to be our brightest player, and that's not a good thing (not saying anything bad about Eddie, but when a 19-yr old rookie is your smartest player, something's wrong).

    On another note, why do we seem to think a 20-ft shot with a defender blanketing you is a good shot? Why not try giving the ball to Griffin at the end? If they double-team, we get (gasp) an open shot if he passes out (which he tends to do). If they don't, we get a turn-around from 10-15 feet, which (even if blanketed) is better than a blanketed shot from 20-25 feet.
     
  2. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    I think the zone rules completely disrupted our offense and the coach is too recalcitrant and just plain dumb to adjust.

    The defense was always lacking and is even worse now with the departure of Dream/Shandn and Moochie being featured in this 3-guard offense every frickin' nite.
     
  3. Jerry36

    Jerry36 Member

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    I've been noticing that for about the last six years with Rudy coached teams.
     
  4. verse

    verse Member

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    i seriously question the collective iq of our guards.


    steve:

    hmmm....i've shot about as poorly as i can, but i'll keep chucking them up, despite have 3 players (kt, griff, cat) that are playing well. drive? nah. no sense getting the other team in foul trouble. they may not be in the game at the end, then. who will i have to face up against, as i dribble the ball carelessly off my shins and shoetops??


    cat:

    hmmm...i know my entire offense is predicated on my ability to drive. hmmm...i have 2 bad ankles. hmmm...ankles are failry necessary if you want to drive to the bucket. hmm...i'll just shoot 3 pointers and step back jumpers instead.


    mooch:

    hmmm...i swear there are some nails sticking up outta the court! it's my duty to pound that bootie!
     
  5. Dallas Rocket

    Dallas Rocket Member

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    Major, totally agree.

    In addition to your well made points, there is simply NO COMMITMENT TO DEFENSE. Other teams trap our guards and press in the backcourt. With our speed and quickness at guard, why don't we? And we typically walk the ball up court- what a brilliant way to take advantage of young legs:rolleyes:

    The collective basketball IQ of the team....well it speaks for itself. And you're right, the staff simply refuses (or can't figure out how to) to counter zones and other defensive schemes. We need to go back to basic training for 5-8 year olds where you can't dribble the ball more than twice, and then you must pass.

    It's maddening because the whole is far less than the sum of the parts. Last nite's game was a microcosm: we passed the ball well for about three quarters, then reverted to selfish one on five basketball and figured out another way to lose.

    HELP:eek:
     
  6. 4chuckie

    4chuckie Member

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    Major I agree as well. What we have is a team full of P-O-T-E-N-T-I-A-L. You know like Stevie is potentially the next great PG, Cat is potentially a great scorer, Cato has the potential to be a top 10 center, blah, blah, blah.
    I also say all these guys (specifically Cat & Stevie) care about is having fun and getting their stats. Neither one is selfish just young and dumb. They need a veteran leader who can show them how to win, simply visiting an NBA playoff game does not teach you intensity or how to play better. These guys have got to know how to play hard every night.
    I guess I am getting to the point where I see EG as our future and not Stevie. Stevie seems to always find trouble (too many T's, some called for some are not). Some players can overcome their ability to find trouble (like AI) and others can't. I know EG has problems as well in his past but I just don't see Stevie progreesing that much in his 3rd year.
    I hope it's just my frustration for this season but Stevie (like every great PG) has to make his teammates better, not just put up stats.
     
  7. ZRB

    ZRB Member

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    That is the very reason why you see so many negative posts on this board. The Rockets never seem to get better, and it is very frustrating. They keep making the exact same mistakes over and over again, game in and game out. It has been like this ever since Pippen left. By now, the Rockets were supposed to be a regular playoff team. You can say what you want about injuries, but a good team should be able to overcome them somewhat. The Rockets should be a .500 team right now. Until a coaching team is made, I see the Rockets being the same for the next few years- mediocre.
     
  8. Jerry36

    Jerry36 Member

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    Everybody from those 2 championship teams are gone except Rudy. It is time for the rockets to go in a new direction.
     
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    The problem is that their leader (Francis) is still immature.

    Teams generally follow their leader, on offense, on defense, in committment, everything.

    Francis is still not totally committed to winning, he has to play defense to reach that level.

    Or, if Eddie Griffin becomes the leader, then the rest of the team could follow him.

    How ironic that our best defender is a 19 year old kid.

    DD
     
  10. solid

    solid Member

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    First, this team is not going to the playoffs this year. If by some amazing stroke of luck they actually do, it will be a very short trip.Therefore, major shake-ups are in the cards. If we hold our hand, I believe we are committing to years of going nowhere. The time before the trading deadline, and the upcoming offseason are especially critical. But can the "management team" that signed Cato long term, brought in an overthehill ex-allstar, and paid big bucks to the "little dribbler" be able to come up with the trade of the century?:confused: :confused:
     
  11. FranchiseBoi86

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    I think we should just bomb this year, pick up Yao Ming. Next season, Francis will probably have gotten rid of his migranes and Cat will have 2 healthy ankles. We'll have Glen Rice and Mo T back next year also. If we can pick up Yao Ming in next years draft, I think we'll be serious contenders next year.
     
  12. pooh222

    pooh222 Member

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    I just came accross this thread. Good question. I see no progress in this team whatsoever, and again I believe this falls heavily on the coach, Rudy. Rudy is running out of excuses. Lately, I've been studying Rudy on the sideline to get a glimpse of how he is reacting to some of the stupid play exhibited on the court. Man, Rudy really looks like a deer in headlights out there, he looks close to clueless. I feel kind of sorry for him because he has the look of a coach who is in over his head. The team really has no direction at all right now. None.

    Yes Rudy has a repitation of being a good players coach, but I believe being to much of a players coach can be a bad thing. This team needs a more stern coach, not an *******, but a coach who can start instilling some decipline into the team as a whole. The reason why this team is stagnant in it's development is because I believe they have no decipline.
     
  13. ROCKETBOOSTER

    ROCKETBOOSTER Member

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    To me this is the sole reason for the Rockets struggles. Rudys infatuation with this Moochie-controlled-three-guard-lineup is something I hoped would be modified. Unfortunately, no imporovement was made in this area and thus the offense still stagnates from out top and theres alot of 1 on 5 or 2 on 5 offensive sets.

    Also I had hoped to see the Rockets guards improve upon their defense but they're still getting burned. The three guard line-up allows opposing guards to exploit Moochies deplorable defense out high and opposing small fowards to exploit us from the wings. This kills the Rockets, imo.
     
  14. crossover

    crossover Member

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    Go Rockets!

    Cato is slowly becoming our most dominant player
     
  15. Hydra

    Hydra Member

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    Mobley actually has seemed to improve on defense. Occasionally someone will have a big night, but he is our best guard at stopping dribble penetration. With all of his athleticism Steve should be able to play the same D that Cat does. He doesn't have the same wingspan but he is also not facing players that are as big. Steve doesn't seem to care as much on the defensive end. He has all of the tools, now it is about effort. Moochie is not going to be a great defender, but he could at least get a hand in people's faces. He lets everyone shoot right over him. I still think he is a very good backup point guard, but he is very average as a starter. Torres was playing good D earlier in the season, back when he was getting playing time.

    Fortunately I can see positives for this season. First, many of our problems can be traced back to the rash of injuries. In addition to the obvious loss of firepower from losing players, there are other effects that we are still feeling. The remaining players are forced to play more minutes. Their roles change and their competition goes from bench players to starters. Small or nagging injuries like Cat's ankles are not allowed to heal properly. If we look at the very beginning of the seeason we had actual small forwards playing the game. If we still had all of our guys, plus the new and improved Griffin that we have been seeing, this team could really make some noise in the playoffs.

    As far as I am concerned, this season is a win-win situation. Either we make the playoffs, which I would prefer, or we get a lottery pick. I would love to somehow pick up a good small forward like Mike Dunleavy, or maybe use the pick as trade bait. But I do not think this team really needs any new pieces. The guys we have, if healthy, could contend for a title, IMHO.

    1 - Francis, Norris, Brown
    2 - Mobley, Torres
    3 - Rice, Williams, Morris, Langhi
    4 - Taylor, Thomas, Willis
    5 - Griffin, Cato, Collier

    A healthy Rice could really turn this team around. He was starting to get his shot back when he got the injury. Still, SF is our weakest position. If Morris could get a ju,p shot, this team would be set.
     
  16. glynch

    glynch Member

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    The IQ of our guards does indeed seem low. After the game in Philly I was ready to trade Steve for Eric Snow and Speedy Claxton, Cuttino for either one of them and Moochie they could have for free.

    I guess playing without big men for much of their careers has at least temporarily ruined them. They are used to jacking up wild shots and trying to beat double temas with a dribble to try to come from behind when the team just doesn't have the talent up front to compete.

    One school of thought is that they will stop that crap once they have real horses up front that they can confidently give the ball to. The second half last yr with Hakeems renewed play suggestd this. I know at the beginning of the season Steve probably missed two assists per game when Cato dropped balls he should have dunked. Eddie and perhaps Mo T will correct this hopefully.

    Rudy has faith that they will improve. He remembers that in the past Vernon and Kenny Smith seemed to have low bb IQ's and improvement also seemed problematical.

    However, we must be modest. Case in point. Just a few weeks ago there was thread after thread blasting Rudy for Eddie shooting threes. Now we must admit that they knew what we didn't, that Eddie is a killer from 3 pt range.

    As far as improvements this year. Eddie and Oscar are the major improvements for the year, perhaps Brown and Morris as well.
    Since they are all first year players we can't expect much improvement in our record, just improvement in our talent level

    Steve and Cuttino started strong, but have been too injured for real improvemtn. Only KT of last years players has improved significantly.

    When building toward a championship some years you improve by building up the talent base and some years you improve by winning more games with your existing players. You rarely do both as the talent needs time to jell.

    Look at it this way. Given the injuries, we lost Hakeem, Mo Taylor and Shandon from last year. Three starters. We gained some rookies and 39 yr old Kevin Willis. Steve has been injured about half the season. The rookies are just starting to come around late in the first half of the seasson. How can you expect an improvement in the record so far.
     

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