Rockets mirror New Jersey

What makes Kidd better??? Other then his assists? Steve would have a lot of assists also if the guys he passed to made their shots

 

what makes jason kidd better (as stated above) is

1. his absolute refusal to NOT push the ball. EVERY opportunity to push the ball...i'm sorry...even when there ISN'T an opportunity to push the ball, he does it.

2. he absolutely dictates the tempo of the game on both ends of the court.

3. kidd also hits his teammates for easy, easy layups.

4. he ALWAYS has his head up and eyes open for the cutter or man leaking out.

5. he ALWAYS looks to pass before dribbling.

6. he makes lesser players better players.

7. he can still hit the open j and score when necessary.


for example, earlier this year, he had ELEVEN ASSISTS BEFORE HE EVEN ATTEMPTED A SHOT!

8. he is the nba mvp. plain and simple.

 

You are only comparing players on the offensive end of the court. The game is played on both ends. Eddie is better suited to playing the 4 on D, where he is closer to the basket to rebound and block shots.

On the offensive end, Eddie has a nice game 5-10 ft from the basket. He does not have a power game off of the low block (may never if he does not get wider).

Having a 4 that hit a 15+ ft J is not a bad thing and works perfectly with Rudy's spread offensive.

 

I agree with what you have to say. However, it is a lot easier to get assists when your team mates make open shots, hit open layups and your center can hit more than 50% of his WIDE OPEN dunk attempts.

Also, Kidd can't shoot consistently with distance. So he isn't a primary scoring option for his team like Francis and Marbury tend to be. I am not trying to take anything away from Kidd, but if he could score virtually at will, like Marbury and Francis, I am sure Kidd would shoot much more (as his coach would demand it like Rudy does of Francis).

 

Verse.....

Good Point....

 

Jason Kidd's has been playing to his full potential since the end of last season, but MVP?

Let us not forget that the Nets were more injury-plagued than the Rockets last season. People were calling that team cursed.

They have a healthy Kerry Kittles and Keith Van Horn back. Martin's broken leg has fully healed. They signed the ideal center to play with Kidd in Macullough(amazing hands and touch around the basket), and picked up a swingman who can be effective by simply running the floor and using his athleticism.

Kidd has his kind of players on the floor with him.

His presence on the court can't be measured exponentially, however; that much is apparent. He does dictate the game on the offensive end like no other player in the league.

Defensively though? He's a smart defender who compensates for his weaknesses by playing off the ball quite nicely, but he's far from being the All-NBA defensive player he's made out to be.

Garnett, at this point, is the MVP in my mind.

Jason Kidd is not a guy I want taking the last shot (34% fg percentage). I'm not trying to take anything away from him as a player, but I feel people overlook the fact that New Jersey has/had a talented team when healthy.

 

jason kidd is the best point guard in the world. steve has the best overall game for a point guard.

i don't agree that we "mirror" the NJN. i would trade cato and kev for NJ centers anyday. we matchup nicely at the poing guard and pf positions. thats it.

 

Garnett or DUncan are the frontrunners in my book right now for MVP.

But you cannot discredit what has happened in New Jersey. Kidd came in and has completely turned that team around 360 degrees (hehehehe, remember his quote?). Seriously, he has made that team an exciting team to watch, but more importantly, they are efficient. The run, the move the ball, they take advantage of opportunities......things Marbury was unable to let his teammates do.

Marbury appeared to not trust his teammates. That made for a large burden for Stephon to carry. He tried to do too many things himself. Kidd gets his players involved, and allows them to be opportunistic.

 

tacoma park legend:

put stephon marbury back on that nets team and are they even 1/2 the team they are now? no. healthy players or not, the reality is that those guys really aren't that good. kittles is a stick that can hit an open j. martin has NO offense to speak of, save for the baseline spin. van horn is soft as tissue, plays ZERO defense, has a serious paint allergy, and is a streak shooter. todd mccoullough has NEVER show to be anything in the nba, save for a big body.


that ragtag bunch, however, with jason kidd at the helm are eastern conference powerhouses...capable of beating the spurs, lakers, and the best in the west. that's what an mvp does.

defense, too. ever notice how new jersey's opponents always end up playing at new jersey's pace? it's true. that's the effect jason kidd has on the game.

you wanna play a 1/2 court game? too bad. he pressures and pressures the guards, plays the passing lanes, and ultimately gets you playing franticly. it's really quite beautiful to watch. oh yea, name the last point guard to just "get off" against jason kidd...



JeffB:

yea, but he can shoot well enough to command respect from the defense. and he can virtually score at will. but that's not his job. it's much more effective for him to make 4 other players better while still dropping a triple double than it is for him to put up 25 per game.

that's the difference between jason kidd and stephon marbury. stephon is doing what you suggsest: shooting more at the demand of his coach. but he isn't making his teammates any better.

as for francis, as soon as griff is ready (which is very soon) steve's number of shots will drop, too. look for griff (once his post game is on point) to get 15-18 shots per game, and for steve to get around 10 shots per. also look for steve's assist #s and rebound #s to go up, as well.

i used to want francis to score more. then i realized he's not the true hog we need anyway. now i see that griff is "chosen one". so, steve's role MUST become that of a "jason kidd-clone": to make his teammates better. to do the dirty work. to post 3xdoubles.

HOOP-T:

how can you claim garnett or duncan?

i could argue that without wally szczerbiak, the twolves would be in the same spot they have been for years. kg's doing what he always has. wally has been the difference in the team's success. granted, kg's a monster, but what different is he doing from year's past? wally's posting big, big games, though.

nothing against kg. i love kg. but i don't see what he's doing this year to elevate his team any more than he did in years past.


duncan.



talk to me in 2 months when the spurs are fighting for the 6 or 7 spot in the west.

 

I really enjoyed this thread. Jason Kidd is a truly gifted athlete. His power is mental. He can push the ball up the floor like no noe else.

Steve Francis is a much more gifted athlete than Jason Kidd, and at 25 next month will continue to develop I think into an even greater player than he already is.

Jason Kidd has more talent to work with than Steve does. He also makes mediocre players like Keith Van Horn better. Kenyon Martin is stronger defensively than anybody we have.

I would take Eddie Griffin now over Van Horn or Martin. -Let our rockets develop and play together healthy- and we are on par with New Jersey.

 

verse,
The proof is in the pudding. You could say that about Wally. Sure, he has been playing better on the offensive end of the floor. But they also have been winning without their floor general, Terrell Brandon. Garnett is the foundation of that team.

It's early in the season.......I'll chat with you later about Duncan. But he has quietly dominated this year, and at times has single handedly pulled out games for his team. Unfortunately, I think the Spurs may even get better.

Talk to me later when the Nets are grounded. I don't think they'll keep winning like this with NO BENCH.

 

Aw, man, I saw the words "New" and "Rockets" and "Jersey" in the thread title and thought we had new uniforms.

Jason Kidd is a fine basketball player.

CBFC

 

In defense of Marbury, thats an entirely different team they have there in NJ this year. Kittles didn't play last year. Van Horn was in and out of the IL, Martin missed most of last year, and they didn't even have 10% of the depth that they due today (Griffin trade). Add to that the fact that Byron Scott was a rookie head coach last year. Those reasons right there make the Kidd vs. Stephon comparison unfair. Hell look at Phoenix's record this year and last and they are about the same. Thats even without Clifford Robinson.

 

I'll agree with most of your points. But I think Steve also makes lesser players better. The whole team runs smoother when he's on the floor. Just look at the difference with and without him on the floor.

Steve also makes other players not even so much by his passing but by commanding more attention from the defense allowing his teammates to get better matchups and hit easier shots.

I think one of the reason why Kidd passes more than shoot, is that he doesn't have the shot or offensive skills that Steve has. It would be wrong for Steve to try and play like Kidd. Francis has to use the strengths that he has. He's a more explosive scorer and using that to his advangtage is wise. I'll grant you that Kidd is better at distributing the ball, and setting up specific plays for his teammates, but Francis is young still.

Francis' decision making just since last year has improved 100%. Turnovers are way down, and he plays more in control.

 

FranchiseBlade,

Verse is stating that Franchise needs to learn from what Kidd is doing..... We all know that Steve can get his shot off when he is ready; but what he needs to do is get his team mates more involved in the game, Push the ball up the court more and start to dictate the flow of the game. This is what separates Kidd from other point guards.

Steve needs to take his game to another level not so much with scoring but with leadership....

 

T-Man,

I think Steve's leadership has made a large step this year. His turnovers are way down, he plays more in control than last year, and he came through to hit that winning shot at the buzzer like a veteran leader.

I agree that he can learn from what Jason Kidd does. I also agree that Steve controlling the tempo of the game would be a huge boon to our team. I think he's well on the way. I don't think, however, that he will ever be the same kind of player that Kidd is though, because the two players have different weapons in their arsenal.

 

FranchiseBlade,

I see that we are on the same Track.. And you are Correct Steve will not have the same game as Kidd.

But once Steve learns how to Balance his scoring with his assist he will be a very unstoppable player.

 

what i want to see from francis is the attitude that he is going to push the ball up the court regardless of it being 2 on 1, 3 on 2, 2 on 3, or 3 on 4

with his talent level, no backpeddling defender or 2 defenders could stop him. seriously.

also, i'd like to see him dribble less and look to pass more. that's not all on him, i know. however, he definitely has his share of moments where a pass would move faster than a dribble.

in the end, he'll (hopefully) end up redefining the point guard position (a "jason kidd" with more explosion.)

p.s.

don't think kidd can't explode. he has quite a few 30+ point explosions (against the rockets, no less).

 

Does anyone remember when the Rockets were locked into battle with Phoe last yr? I'll tell you what happened, what happened was Kidd willed that team from 8th to 6th seed. It was games down the stretch when he just took over and refused to let that team lose. In fact ,he did it against us in the final month of the season. Byron Scott should be given credit for leting his point guard run the offense also. I imagine if everytime Steve got the ball, if Rudy didn't bark out plays, he could push the ball too. There are very few pg's that push the ball and force his team to run better than Kidd. Duncan is having a good yr and so is Garnett, but anyone that thought the Nets would have the best record in the East is a fortune teller.

This team do mirror each other except they have better atheletes, a better system, and play in the east. Looking at their starting 5, what player in our lineup can you say will dominate his match up? If you ask me I'd say none. We have the chance to play the same kind of ball as they do if given the chance, but we're still stuck in a let 1 man break the d down and get everyone else shots. As good of a ball handler Kidd is, he handles the ball about half as much as any of our guards. When we play them, watch how many passes or how many people are invloved in the offense. Other than a fast break, everyone touches the ball on offense.

Also when we play the Nets, we'll get to see what a real fast break looks like. It starts in the middle and the ball is advanced through passes not dribbling up the sidelines.