1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

TMac play by play analysis vs. Pacers

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Blake, Feb 2, 2008.

  1. NBAlover

    NBAlover Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    5
    seems you still did not understand what people are talking about with TMAC.
    the reason why fans don't like her any more is because she lacks a heart to win :mad: , lacks sportsman's passion to win :mad: and lacks basic responsibility for this team this season :mad: . she has highest salary in the team, of course she has to contribute much more than her teammates..but with a person like her as a superstar and a huge salary burden, rox will never reach their expectation. period. :(
     
  2. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    Actually, i'm just being objective. You're too limited in the scenarios where he gets a "bad" play.

    Especially since you count a hockey assist as a "good" play for him.
     
  3. Blake

    Blake Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    9,970
    Likes Received:
    3,005
    When he creates an open shot it's a good play. It's actually simple.

    If he is doubled and just throws it to another player and it doesn't create an open shot, he gets no credit.

    That is being objective. Man, you argue just to argue, don't you?
     
  4. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    62
    This is not addressed to those complaints.

    This is addressed to complaints that he is always chucking bad shots and never drives to the basket.
     
  5. Blake

    Blake Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    9,970
    Likes Received:
    3,005
    How am I limiting it? If he takes a bad shot and misses it, it's a bad play. If he commits a turnover, it's a bad play. If he gets a T, it's a bad play.

    A hockey assist is a good play IF YOU ARE THE REASON THE MAN IS OPEN.

    I'm done with this argument with you. No one else seems to agree with you either.
     
  6. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    Several people have pointed out your lack of objectivity.

    If he is doubled and throws it to another player and it doesnt create an open shot, no credit.

    But if that other player were to then pass it to an open man for a shot, then you would give tmac credit.

    Now, lets say Battier cuts to the basket. Tmac sees this too late and decides not to throw the pass.

    This should be a "bad" play on Tmac's part. However, this wont even get rated in your analysis.
     
  7. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,176
    Likes Received:
    29,656
    If we are only talking about his decision making, then yes. We shouldn't even distinguish made shots and missed shots. If he takes a shot when he should, then it's a good play (in terms of decision making), not neutral, even if he misses.

    But if we are talking about his effectiveness, then a missed shot is definitely bad. If you miss enough open shots, then you are not a very good shooter. If you are not a good shooter, then you are not a great offensive player, at least not at the superstar level.

    Let me add this in light of wekko's comment in the above post. If we are talking about decision making alone, then passing out of double team may or may not be good, depending on HOW and WHEN he passes. But if we are talking about his over effectiveness, getting double team (and not turning over or forcing a bad shot) is always a good thing because you are opening up your teammates and putting a strain on the opponent's defense.
     
    #147 Easy, Feb 2, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2008
  8. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    62
    Even if you take away the hockey assist good plays, it wont make any more bad offensive plays. Maybe the reason there are so few bad plays, is because he actually isnt making a bunch of bad plays. Perhaps you think the are more bad plays because of your viewpoint on T-Mac. I think really, the folks complaining about his abundance of bad plays are seeing the neutral ones as bad and the good ones as neutral. I mean, he gets a steal and takes it in for the dunk, and folks complain that he didnt run fast enough, almost got caught and blocked from behind, or didnt jump high enough for the dunk. Or maybe he didnt have a dunk contest shot lined up and that ticked them off?
     
  9. abc2007

    abc2007 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    8,303
    Likes Received:
    64
    This is just the same as most of 'hate' in this world, which is based on illusions!

     
  10. Blake

    Blake Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    9,970
    Likes Received:
    3,005
    I wrote down what happened every time he was involved in a play. The only things I left out were when he just threw it into Yao into the low post so Yao could make a move.

    In that game, that did not happen. Sorry.

    You still don't get it. Go look up defensive rotations, buddy. The second player WILL BE OPEN because defender #1 doubled and defender #2 slid over to cover defender #1's man, thus leaving the other player open. IT IS A GOOD PLAY, no matter who does it (Tmac or Yao)
     
  11. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    62

    Just because you see Battier cut to the basket, doesnt mean he is open or able to catch the pass. I have RARELY seen this happen where you say "oops, he had Battier open for a lay-up and missed him." It doesnt happen enough to worry about.
     
  12. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    Thats fine if it didnt happen in the game. But it does happen. And the system you use would fail to recognize it.

    Your system seems designed to capitalize on tmac's good plays but neglect his bad plays.

    Thats my point. If you dont agree, its simply b/c your criteria for good/bad/neutral plays arent objective enough.
     
  13. Blake

    Blake Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    9,970
    Likes Received:
    3,005
    No it wouldn't. I wrote down what happened on every play. If those things happened, I would have pointed it out and marked it against him. Since it didn't, is didn't get counted.

    SHEESH to quote DD.

    How about this. If he had the ball stolen from him without being fouled, of course I would mark it as a bad play. It didn't happen, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't have considered that. I wrote down what I considered good/bad plays WITH REGARDS TO what happened in the game.
     
  14. JeopardE

    JeopardE Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    7,418
    Likes Received:
    246
    Welcome to my ignore list, rookie.
     
  15. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    You cant set your criteria based on game-by-game standards.

    And I didnt want to bring it up again, but it did happen. Remember that last pass to rafer? McGrady threw a TERRIBLE pass that rafer had a very little chance of catching. And even if he would've caught it, there was nothing he would've been able to do except reset the offense.

    You gave that a "good" rating b/c you said rafer mishandled the pass.
     
  16. NBAlover

    NBAlover Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    5
    did you question back yourself why there are so many "TMAC haters" out there?? why?? why??
     
  17. JeopardE

    JeopardE Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    7,418
    Likes Received:
    246
    This is hilarious. So T-Mac is now a bad passer?

    Wow.
     
  18. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    Nope, he just simply threw a bad pass. He is a good passer.

    I wanted to point out to Blake that he originally called it a "good" play on Tmac's part when it should've been a "bad" play.
     
  19. abc2007

    abc2007 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    8,303
    Likes Received:
    64
    Actually, I didn't see many haters! LOL

    Bball is a great entertainment! Why don't just simply enjoy it?!

     
  20. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    62
    He doesnt change the criteria. He says this game because he didnt do it for any other game. If he does this for a game and it happens, he marks it down. Its really not that difficult.

    I would do it, but am supersitious about DVRing a Rockets game.(any time I DVR the whole game or start DVRing before its "over" the Rockets lose)

    I could probably do it for the 2nd half of games.
     

Share This Page