So I used quotation marks. You do know what I was talking about. Your logic is defective, don't you agree?
I was talking about something thinking in an unbiased way, which might help a rookie become a member with less than 500 posts.
Are you saying my immediate, emotional reaction is illogical? Yes, you could very well be right. I thought that's what I was trying to get across ("I think I should be a little more appreciative"). The great things Yao does seem routine, because of his immense size. When he gets a rebound in traffic, or blocks a shot, or scores a basket with 2 guys defending him, it's easy to dismiss it because he's not jumping high or hanging in the air or even displaying extraordinary timing. That shouldn't in any way diminish his value to the team, though. On the other hand, Yao's unique physical characteristics result in certain weaknesses that stand out. He is turnover-prone, but beyond that he's particularly slow to loose balls, in changing directions, and contesting outside jumpers. Watching these things, the immediate reaction is he's not mentally alert or he's playing "without a motor". That's frustrating, particularly after so many years of watching Hakeem Olajuwon. I have to remind myself that it's not Yao's fault, a lot of that stuff is literally beyond his control. Yao's size offers both advantages and disadvantages. It's natural, though not "logical", to remember those advantages while forgetting the disadvantages.
I think Yao is great and is currently the best center in the league. My only issues with him are: A) He is too nice. No one in the league is afraid to challenge him, whether that means trying to dunk on him, little guards driving the lane on him or players feeling like they can throw him down like a rag doll. The latter really upsets me because it could lead to an injury. Our defense would be better if he were more of an intimidator. B) He still goes for lay-ups instead of dunks at times. C) He gets fronted too easily. I think he can correct all of those if he really wants to. I think it’s all mental for him. Due to his body-type, he really can’t move like most other players in the league. So I don’t mind that he isn’t a great rebounder or shotblocker. I don’t like the turnovers but it’s not like he averages much more than other post players who touch the rock as much as he does. I don’t mind him not being dominant in the clutch like Hakeem…most centers aren’t. I think he is a great scorer. If you can’t be stopped without a double team then you are great at scoring IMO. If you can still put up 25 a night while always being doubled AND MUGGED then you are really great at scoring. So I respect Yao for what he is, a great scoring weapon, that is good at everything else.
I was catching up with the thread and had to respond to this. I followed Dream from the time he first played for Guy Lewis at the University of Houston and I'm far from alone here in saying that he was always a special player, even when he was "skinny," raw in his skills, and possessed with a devil of a temper. He was well loved then, well loved during the brief period as one of the Twin Towers, and well loved during the frustrating years in the wilderness, when the Rockets simply didn't have the talent and coaching to get anywhere. It's a minor point, but while not a McGrady (played a different position, of course), a less skilled Hakeem (compared to later, when he was peerless) went to the Finals with Ralph Sampson. A brief shining moment, which we didn't realize at the time.
No disrespect and not to bash, I don't think ming is a great scorer. I think he's effective within limitations. To neutralize a great scorer, you have to do so many things right that most teams concede that they will get theirs. Not to beat this dead as horse, but the truly great centers that have played in the nba, teams would have to send a flawless double team. By flawless I mean the post player would have to be off his sweet spot, wasted his dribble, then double down big. With Yao, he can have his foot in the paint and they can run a 6ft guard and he'll pass out. If you let shaq,dream,robinson,parrish,kareem, or moses get the ball in the paint, its too late. Another guy said its debateable about the poor centers in the nba. Even if include duncan, how many hall or famers do u have? Dream came in in 84, and during that time he played against parrish,kareem,robinson,ewing,mutombo,mourning,shaq,mchale,moses. All of those guys are going to the hall. So don't tell me that the center crop is even close to those guys. Look, this is more about appreciating what Yao does for the rox. We could go on and on about what he is or not. I think he's a good player that has limitations that might restrict him from being great. whether its the conditioning issue or cultural. I never said Yao should be like the other greats, just be great. If you know guards are swiping at the ball, get your hands stronger and stop bringing the ball down. If you know guys are pushing you low, get ur lower body stronger so u can hold ur spot and not wind up at the 3pt line. There are things in Yaos game that are very correctable. Its just a matter of putting in the effort in the offseason and doing them.
it truly is debatable in my mind. let's wait for all the current guys finish their careers and see for certain. and i'm certain not all the guy you listed are centers and certainly not all of them are going to the hall. keep in mind that the hall of fame does not quite often admit players.
It's sometimes hard to see the goodness in something because you've been given it for so long you started to take it for granted. While both TMac and Yao are great players, sometimes it's very easy to overlook Yao's contribution to the team because he's not flashy and he just does his job night in and night out. After you get used to seeing that, you started to take it for granted. Case in point, last season in the playoff against Utah. I was watching Yao battling Utah all night. It was very ugly game where Yao was hacked all the time, every single points he got is pure effort because Jazzhole wouldn't let him have one easy shot. By the time Yao get 30+ points, I was getting tired just looked at Yao being hack and made his free throws, it must have seem like Yao was using a 50+ point effort to get those 30+ points, that was how hard he fought that night. In that game, TMac was bricking jumpers left and right, and he just kept putting it up. Utah hung around very tough. Until last quarter, TMac starts to heat up and knocking down those jumpers from all over. We kicked Utah's butt. All I could remember is how TMac comes out on fire in 4th quarter and sent the Jazz home. Now that I think back, Yao was the one working his nuts off keeping us in the game getting foul every time in the post. TMac was not hitting his shots and that is why Utah was able to hung around. I remembered cheering wildly that TMac got so hot and started to knock down those shots. I can definitely see why Yao would be overlooked. From then on, I started to appreciate Yao and Battier more, the players that are truly integral to the team success but does not bring a lot of WOW factor when you watch them play. Now I appreciate Scola because he's the same kind of player. Those are the guys you can build a winning team with. We're lucky we have them.
Once again you equated playing good to scoring. Playing great can be other things. Read the stat line and you'll see 6rebs, 4to's, 0blks, and 0 asst. Now if my sg or sf gets 6rebs, I'm cool, but not my big man. I get as much enjoyment when I see yao have 15pts,19 rebs,4blk games as any game he has. You talked about tracy bricking, but how many asst and rebounds did he have? Like I said earlier, its about presence in the middle. When Boozer is scoring in ur grill all series, it negates yao production. When the game was on the line and a rebound couldn't be secured, well what more can be said. To the earlier poster that said its debateable about the hall of famers I listed, who's not going in?
When Dream is at his prime time, Shap is still a Rookie. If I back one step , Dream is ONLY playing against Shap(Rookie) and Robinson(Kareem? are you kidding me? Is he still playing basketball during 1993-1995???? Mutomobo? not good enough on affense 11ppg on average. Mourning a bit weak on defense. not good enough. mchale, yeah, you are kidding me again. When Dream is playing great, Mchale already graduated from NBA, Thx.). I am not telling you the center crop is the same but not that far after all. So when you back up your standpoint, you'd better examine your arguments seriously. By the way, that era is Center era. Nowdays, rules are killing the development of good centers in the league. Double, even Triple... When a good center is against another center, it is always easy to make a shot. That happened in the past. Good centers are making relatively easier shots than the centers today. That is one of the good reasons that those people could have some good stats.
I hate saying this but is Yao akin to David Robinson? Robinson's career stats are 21/10.5/3 (blks). They were higher in earlier years across the board, but those are his career stats. Yao is performing around that level, could still go up, but it's close. Robinson was criticized for being soft and not being dominant enough to win, until Tim Duncan came along. Yikes, but there may be truth to the comparison.
With all respect due, you couldn't be more wrong. Hakeem was playing Kareem and beating the Showtime Lakers to get to the Finals in 1986, during his second year. The Rockets smoked them in 5 games. Pat Riley wrote on his blackboard prior to one game, "Contain Akeem!!!" as the key. They couldn't. I'm sorry, but you didn't see those games and you simply don't know what you're talking about. That Lakers team won the championship the year before and won another the next season. The Finals and McHale? McHale was on arguably the best team ever, the Celtics of that year going 67-15, and the young Rockets, without their starting point guard, and heck, his backup, Allen Leavell, who was banged up enough to force Bill Fitch to play Robert Reid as the PG (Reid was terrific playing out of position), took them to 6 games before losing. Bird was Finals MVP. McHale, the guy you said was out of the NBA, was fantastic. You might want to do some research on the Rockets and the NBA before making sweeping statements like that. I'm not a stat guy... I'm just a fan who watched the games.
The Sonics game is a pretty good illustration of what we're talking about in this thread. The Rockets are losing, but we'd be getting blown out without Yao. At the same time, there are a number of possessions where Yao's inability to contest a jumper just sticks out.
I feel like Yao is an "all-stats" kinda guy. Someone who gets you big numbers but doesn't really win games consistently. Today for example, he is like 28-14, and the Rockets are on the verge of losing to the dregs of the league Sonics. This is not to say he is a bad player at all, but that his true role on a championship contender would that of a pure scorer and not your go-to, do it all kinda guy.
That's what I'm saying. The rookie shaq was 28 and 10. Robinson in his rooki yr did the same. They give big guys 4yrs now. The other poster forgot Ewing,malone, and daughtery was 20-10 type guys in dreams 4th yr. deke and zo have won dpoy multiple times.
you can trade yao for another other center besides dwight right now, assuming duncan is a pf. who else would you rather have?
Man! I have no idea what to say but thanks.Hopefully everyone is able to see this side of the truth. Actually same kind of questions also keep bothering me how come yao still can not get his reputation with his great stats from some of fans.I think they really expect a lot from yao. The expectation is freaking high. However, i also think those kind of ppl could motivate yao to become better and better. Big man, keep improving!
