Holden, Do you really know what you're getting yourself into? (The invitation, I mean) I swear, I'm liable to grab my brother and a friend or two and head up there one weekend during the summer. Where exactly is Fulsher, anyways? I'd love to hear more about your animals and the elephant. ----------------- Ottomaton, That's a pretty severe conclusion to draw with such little information. I would think that the elephant, even if alone, is better off with land to roam than in either a circus or a zoo. ---------------- SPG, Man, you guys sure like to jump to conclusions. Why not ask Holden, about the situation, instead of making groundless accusations? From what Holden said, I didn't get the impression that he was just gonna smack the baby elephant on the as$ and say, "See ya! Hope everything works out."
Again, I point to the quotes. Did you read them? More than even people, elephants need hundreds of acres to roam and a stable group of many other elephants to socialise with. What would you say to someone who bought a greyhound to keep in their 400 square foot apartment, never taking it out for a walk? You'd say that that person is passively abusing the animal. Multiply the stress and discomfort of that dog by a factor of 10 and thats probably pretty close to keeping an elephant in a 'small plot of land.' Also, clearly you don't understand what happens to elephants who are kept isolated. Ever see those studies on how you need 'x' number of people to go on a 6 month trip to Mars else they'll go crazy? Elephants are many times more dependent of contact with their peers than people. Also, we're talking about an indefinate length of time, as opposed to a finite period. You clearly don't understand the nature of these animals. How does what you 'think' hold any weight on the matter when your opinion is uninformed?
Inteligence tests for animals are notorously subjective. Perhaps you've heard of the concept of Seven Types of Inteligence>. Perhaps a more aplicable way to think of inteligence would be as a graphical equation, like in calculus. The more points you take, the better the representation of the curve you get. Especialy with animals, where the swing in genetic/developmental physology is so great, each species' 'curve' looks very different, and it's very dificult to sample enough 'points' to get an accurate representation. Thats why you will never see a definitive list of which species is higher on the inteligence scale.
I don't think that I was making groundless accusations. He said that he had an eight-month old elephant, a bag of elephant chow, and a piece of property to keep it on. Aside from the fact that taking an elephant away from its mother (and/or other elephants) at that age is a bad thing in and of itself, it would require nearly constant supervision and care. Maybe he has the time, energy, and expertise to do just that, but "i pretty much leave them alone, except putting food out" doesn't scream amateur zoologist. It's a bad idea, no matter how well intentioned he might be. Assuming he's serious about the whole thing.
Ottomaton, Let's look at a few things: The elephant was born in captivity. What are the odds of that elephant being returned to the wild? Fairly slim, if you ask me. Even if it were, what are the odds of it surviving? Again, slim. So, when you put those two together there is a neglible likelihood of this animal living the way it was meant to. Now, what do you/we/I/Holden do? We make the best of the situation. There are four things people could do with this elephant. 1. Return to wild to (most likely) die. 2. Put in zoo, which would be the most confining of the options. But, it would get to interact with other elephants. 3. Put it in a circus. This would be less confining than a zoo, but I've read many bad things about mistreatment of circus animals. 4. Let a person who has exotic animal experience raise it in an open area with similar climatic characteristics as it's native home. I'm guessing the best scenario would be that Holden got another elephant for this one to interact with. But, then he'd have twice the problems as far as land, feed, care, etc. If you know of another option, let us know. There might be some other organization in the U.S. that takes exotic animals and tries to raise them, but who's to say they could raise this elephant any better than Holden?
Holden- How much does an elephant cost ? I would be curious to also know what the cost to feed the animal is. Good Luck, this looks like a huge responsibility
I guess the question is what's more important to an elephant, space or interaction with other elephants? Since elephants are so social, I'd guess that they're prefer to be with other elephants over having more land to roam. So then, I'm guessing that the best option that you've listed DREAMer would be putting him in a zoo with trainers and keepers.
DREAMer- Just because one solution is 90% animal mistreatment, and the other is just a measly 50% mistreatment, doesn't make #2 right. As I stated, it's better than a circus, where animals get beaten etc. and it's better than many zoos in some respects, but more modern zoos have several acres for the elephants, and companions for the elephants, and people who are experts in elephant care.
