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Did Adelman change the offense?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BucMan55, Jan 11, 2008.

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Did Adelman change the offense??

  1. Adelman changed the offense

    100 vote(s)
    62.5%
  2. T-Mac is just being a ball hog

    60 vote(s)
    37.5%
  1. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

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    I did this one other time when folks were certain that Adelman was holding down Francis and posted a poll as to what folks thought the reason for Steve not playing was. Well, lets try it again but this time the question is: Did Adelman switch the offense up 10 or so games in to get guys what he hoped would be much more comfortable shots(by using JVG sets and plays they were more familiar with) thus causing T-Mac to have more ISO plays or did T-Mac just start hogging the ball on his own.

    Several of us have brought this up, but it really seems to fall on deaf ears. Most just regurgitate the same stuff that he is a ball hog and always takes bad 22 foot jumpers with 18 seconds left on the shot clock.


    Edit: Finally got it right
     
  2. rocketsregle

    rocketsregle Member

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    It falls on deaf ears because in my opinion this theory is false. We were running the old system because of Tracy and not because of the role-players. He was the one slow to change. If we ran the old system for the role-players to get comfortable because they were shooting career lows then why did Adelman as soon as Tracy was out of the lineup run his system in Denver? Why the change if they were still shooting career lows before that game? If it was the other players who had the problem with it, they wouldn't have taken up to it so fast after shooting horribly in the previous game against Orlando where Tracy left the game injured.
     
  3. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

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    So you are saying it was unsanctioned by Adelman??
     
  4. clutch citizen

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    THE biggest difference in the offense is the plays for the bigs down low. We are starting to see Scola more with his back to the basket, and he is converting.

    Yao is now almost exclusively in the low post (where he should be). When they were losing, it seemed Yao was in the high post half the time. Now he's only taking that 15-18 foot jumper as a last resort.

    When McGrady gets back, I think this team will be EVEN BETTER. Saying this offense plays better without McGrady is unfair because when Tmac was playing, the offense wasn't the same. When he went down, the offense changed, and it changed for the better.

    The offense McGrady played with before his injury:

    Yao was playing a lot in the high post
    Scola was just a jumpshooter
    Rafer was Rafer
    Head wasn't playing well enough to even be in the rotation
    Bonzi thought he could hit threes
    Brooks was the point guard for next year

    The offense that McGrady will return to has:

    More agressive/dunking Yao
    Yao in the low post a lot more
    Scola in the low post
    Rafer hitting 3's
    Luther playing with more versatility
    Bonzi thinking he could hit 3's, but does take it in occasionally
    Brooks as the perfect change of pace PG of the bench THIS YEAR.

    I think Adelman changed the offense, and he's doing what he does best: coaching the best out of the talent on his team.
     
  5. rocketsregle

    rocketsregle Member

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    Adelman doesn't strike me as a coach who will stand up to Tracy. Which is why I agree with Clutch that it was important for the team to win without Tracy to put the onus on him to adapt to the team.
     
  6. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

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    I think we would know if T-Mac was out there running playground stuff against Adelman's wishes. Something in his demeanor, the demeanor of the other players.

    Also, I'd be surprised if T-Mac doesnt fit in with the offense when he gets back. I've seen him run this offense before(albeit a shell of this offense). This time, his teammates will be making shots.
     
  7. hancock.corey

    hancock.corey Member

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    I think Adelman adjusted it slighty to better fit his personel. Simple as that. All they are doing is giving the ball to a big man and cutting (there are other things, too, but this sticks out to me) which they could easily do with McGrady (even with McGrady being the "big man".) As I stated in an earlier post, the Rockets are simply making shots.
     
  8. mbiker

    mbiker Member

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    Adelman mentioned on numerous occasions that the team was not necessarily playing his style of basketball. He said that they were reverting back to what they were doing last year. He also mentioned that he did not have any answers to the problem. Two weeks later Tracy gets hurt and during the press conferences Adelman mentions that the offense is moving the ball well.

    The first game that Tracy missed the Rockets lost, but it was the first time that the team played similar to the Sacramento Kings. It was the first Rocket game this year that was enjoyable to watch, and all the games since have been enjoyable.

    If anyone doubts that Tracy slows down a motion offense, just go back and watch some of the games. If you watch just Tracy, you will notice when he doesn’t have the ball, he just stands there, he rarely sets picks, and he doesn’t cut to the basket. Then go watch an old clip of Peja Stojakovic when he was with the Kings. Stojakovic was all over the place.

    The people that don’t understand how Tracy slows down the game, are the same people that don’t understand how valuable Shane Battier is. There is more to basketball than scoring a lot of points.
     
  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    The problem wasn't T-mac it was that the players al trusted T-mac more then themselves and so would try to always get him the ball and wouldn't feel comfortable shooting it. Because they didn't play with confidence.

    When T-mac got injured, they were forced to survive without him, and had to buy into the offense.

    I think that regardless of what happened, progress would have been made. T-mac's injury may have, and I stress the may, his injury may have accelerated that process.

    But let's also keep in a few other factors in mind.

    At the beginning of the season, Scola was still struggling to adopt to NBA rules and get his sea-legs, and rafer was mired in a shooting slump (which is scary to say that) and finally, you didn't have Aaron Brooks.

    If you take those three things away, we wouldn't be on a five game win streak either.

    Right now, a lot of things are coming together, health wise, confidence wise, and adopting to the NBA and offense wise. T-mac is just one piece of the puzzle to that, and when he comes back, this team will be better.

    How do I know that? Because T-mac wants to win really badly. He's got the worst sort of monkey on his back, and people jsut talk about 10 years without a playoff victory - he's come so close too. But he knows that if he comes back and is perceived to be a negative influence, then he's in big trouble.

    So he doesn't have a choice really, and the thing is, t-mac actually is unselfish and a good guy. He's got a massive ego to be sure, and he'll never admit that he's changing, but at the truth of it, he wants to win and he wants to blend in and be part of the team. So there's really nothing to worry about.
     
  10. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    Coach A did not change the offence! The players found themselves , their confidence and rythem and started playing team basketball. What they are playing looks nothing like what Coach A described at the beginning of the season. This chemistry could now carry them a long way, its upto McGrady now to adopt into this chemistry. :p
     
  11. Alvin Choo

    Alvin Choo Member

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    its the lack of confidence of the role players hence they defer the ball too much to Tmac. The odd thing i usually sees is that when tmac got the ball, there is no more motion from the other guys. They just stand around waiting for tmac to do something.

    When that happens, most fans just says that Tmac is playing iso....... which is not true.

    Which is why i agree with Rick Adelman that there would not be any worry when Tmac comes back as he is the top scorer and assist of the team.

    As long as the other players are confident in their own ability, tmac will only enhance it.

    Hence both assumption is not accurate, and i did not vote.
     
  12. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

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    Spot on. Finally someone who's watched all the games.

    If you watched the Orlando game at home, or the NJ and Toronto games on the road, you saw McGrady deliberately killing fast break opportunities and walking the ball up the court. It was plain as day.
     
  13. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

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    First, the offense we saw in week 1 was a skeletal version of the Adelman offense. Commentators were all over this in game 1. Just check the YouTube of T-Mac's points against LA. You can hear Doug Collins talking about it. It sure looked new to me. A month later, I remember Adelman saying they were trying some of the older more familiar stuff that these guys ran to get them more "comfortable" shots. Why did the offense revert?? Guys couldnt hit a shot.


    Second, I have seen T-Mac set tons of screens. And move alot without the ball. With the way guys were blowing layups left and right, I cant blame him for slowing it down sometimes on the break to get a better shot. I can recall just as many times Rafer/Head/James didnt push the ball as T-Mac didnt push the ball. He doesnt get a pass on the time he left 5 seconds on the clock at the end of the half, though.


    And which first game Tracy missed are you talking about. Are you speaking about the Denver game?? Or maybe the second Spurs game(which was his first missed game of the year). Surely you cant mean all games since the second Spurs game. Some of the games after that were downright ugly. Couldnt be that after the failed experiment with the old stuff, Adelman started putting in the new offense again, which, according to Fran's blog, sometime around the 2nd Dallas game(he commented that ball movement looked better that game, and T-Mac was on the floor - but Rafer wasn't).
     
  14. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
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    Does anybody here have the time, interest, and knowhow to make a partial compilation video of Tracy without the ball (at least when the camera angle includes him)? That would be highly instructive.
     
  15. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

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    Well, to be honest Will, any video one way or the other will skew to what the video maker wants to present. If they want to show T-Mac working hard, they will show clips of him setting picks, moving without the ball, etc. If they want to show T-Mac is being disruptive, they will select clips where he doesnt move around alot.
     
  16. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Member

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    ^
    Something I've noticed is that often, after T-mac makes a drive-and-kick, he won't follow it up...he'll just sort of stand or walk around as if the play is over (which it isn't, if the open shooter misses or passes it off). That annoys me slightly.
     
  17. ihatehyena

    ihatehyena Member

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    It isn't all TMac's fault. At the beginning of the season, Adelman has tried to use TMac as a finisher instead of a creator. However, it didn't run well and return to JVG offense for some reasons:
    1. Rockets haven't gotten used to new system, still differ to TMac.
    2. Adelman tried to use Yao as Divac and put him to the high post where he is not much a threaten to opponents.
     
  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    And not only that, you would have to compare t-mac to other stars in similar offenses.

    The point is, there's been so much dishonest slime tossed on Tmac ontop of any legitimate criticism that now we have no idea what's legit or what's just poo-poo from those who are trying to tarnish his rep anyway they can.

    The only way now is to watch how he plays when he comes back.
     
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    You have to present more evidence about this because no one else sees it and you just sound like a T-mac hater right now.
     
  20. Sextuple Double

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    The ball is moving better, but I know I'm not the only one seeing this.

    Passes are crisper resulting in less turnovers and more bunnies at the rim.
    Outside shots are falling.

    At the start, passes were awful and wide open shots were bricking.
     

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