History revisited....Supposedly unhappy Superstar, Trade Rumors....

maybe if you read it, you'll be educated about the Rockets

 

Results in the same number of rings given for that season right?

Dream was considered great only after he got the ring(s). Before that he was just really good, and people b****ed about him. The OP is just drawing some simliarities here.

Does this mean Tracy is on his way to winning a ring or two? Who knows? But it is just interesting conversation, that's all.

 

Well, Denver swept the series with Houston that year or came close. And Seattle didn't have a real center from what I recall. Didn't they have Sean Kemp playing in the middle? I've got to imagine that Hakeem would've killed whoever he was matched up against.

 

young fan,
the rules of the NBA were different back in the day. Seattle use to play this thing called "ILLEGAL DEFENSE" on us.

Plus Shawn Kemp was a power forward and played like Amare does today. Plus you got that Gary Payton guy.

Plus Detlef Shremp could hit from the outside.

When they put Sam Perkins in the game, Dream has to go out to defend his outside shooting, leaving the middle open.

 

I'll tell you this if Tmac plays like he did last year at the end of series taking pansy jumpers early in the shot clock he'll hinder our chances, but we have a chance since the other 4 on the court will play team ball

hopefully he comes back with more heart to drive the lane when the game is down to the wire and makes things happen for the team

 

Thats the impression I was under.

 

You are entitled to your beliefs bro. I trust McGrady to make the play he likes most. I recall many many jumpshots/3s he's launched to bring us to wins. So if he deems the jumper to be his best shot at that moment, I'll trust him. Tracy isn't exactly a great finisher anymore. And he certainly doesn't get as many calls as someone named after a steak.

If he gets a clean look on a jumper (most are clean for him), I'll take it. Win or lose. He's helped win some, he's helped lose some that way. Jordan and Kobe are jumpshooters. They seemed to have done ok for themselves.

I just know us getting out the first round is not his fault. I don't know about when he was in Orlando, but HERE it hasn't been his fault. Not even close.

 

LOL, I remember watching all the playoff games that year. I wish I could still be classified as "young".

I remember Detlef Shremp did an internship at Texas Instruments one year. See, another Texas (although Dallas) connection.

I have to admit I didn't see any of the regular season games between Houston and Seattle that year, although that was the year Seattle burned it up and won over 60 games if I remember correctly. I do remember in the playoffs though that the feeling was that Houston would be much better off playing Utah since Denver either swept the series with Houston that year or won convincingly.

 

Love the early shot clock J's in the 4th quarter myths. He may take 3 or 4 early shot clock jumpshots per game. Thats about 1 per quarter. And for the most part, his man is backed off of him. He is OPEN.

As for his 4th quarter against Utah in Game 7: 3 for 6. No missed shot taken with more than 10 seconds left on the shot clock. His only 3 point shot was taken with 2 seconds on the shot clock.

 

Remember when Toronto offered an early first rounder and Damon Stoudamire for Hakeem when it was obvious Hakeem was past his prime, was suffering from injuries, and the team was heading in the wrong direction and the ROX passed? I think that pick turned into Vince Carter IIRC. Remember when the Blazers offered Clyde Drexler and the #2 pick for Ralph Sampson and the ROX passed? That pick could have been Jordan or (more likely since they would have already had Clyde and no PF) Barkley. Sometimes management is right to pass on trades, and sometimes they are not.

 

I don’t know, it seems to me the people insisting on not trading Mcgrady are being a little more shortsighted than the people more open to trading him.

The big fear many have in trading Mcgrady is it means we would basically have to rebuild over again.

Those that oppose trading Mcgrady don’t want to rebuild and would rather pray that we can somehow turn this mediocre team into a contender.

I think most of those that favor trading Mcgrady realize that it probably means the team will have to rebuild so that in 3 years or so we’ll finally be able to be true contenders.

 

So you're taking Patterson's word over Olajuwon's?

Dream's version:
In his autobiography, Living the Dream, Hakeem says that he felt he was underpaid and deserved a larger contract. At the time, NBA contracts were growing a lot faster than the players' yearly raises, so it wasn't unusual for a star to want to renegotiate. The Rockets refused. Soon after, Hakeem got injured. I forget just what kind of injury it was, but it was one of those where only the player knows if he can play through it. Patterson then went to the media and accused Hakeem of faking the injury in order to force the team to renegotiate his contract. Of course, Hakeem was deeply insulted and asked to be traded.

Hakeem's Rockets teammates sided with him, saying that if Dream said he was hurt, they believed him. If I had to pick a side, I'd go with Olajuwon's word over Patterson's, especially considering that while Olajuwon at least knew whether he was injured, Patterson just assumed that he wasn't.

 

I think alot of the argument to trade McGrady comes from heresay that T-Mac is the reason the ball stopped moving. As if, against the coaches orders, T-Mac was playing like a selfish little 12 year old on the playground.

 

Hakeem a knucklehead? Hakeem just considered good before he won championships? Wow! McGrady apologists have resorted to making crap up just to excuse him.

First of all, Hakeem was not a knucklehead. As already mentioned, he was not to be messed with. Early on his career, his game was still not refined, but he was a physical beast. His opponents often resorted to dirty tactics to keep him check. Unlike Yao, Hakeem retaliated. He did not take crap from anyone. Heck, I wish Yao would smack some of his defenders for what they get away with.

Hakeem was just good before championship huh? *laugh* Let's take a look.

YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
84-85 HOU 82 82 35.5 .538 .000 .613 5.40 6.50 11.90 1.4 1.21 2.68 2.85 4.20 20.6
85-86 HOU 68 68 36.3 .526 .000 .645 4.90 6.60 11.50 2.0 1.97 3.40 2.87 4.00 23.5
86-87 HOU 75 75 36.8 .508 .200 .702 4.20 7.20 11.40 2.9 1.87 3.39 3.04 3.90 23.4
87-88 HOU 79 79 35.8 .514 .000 .695 3.80 8.30 12.10 2.1 2.05 2.71 3.08 4.10 22.8
88-89 HOU 82 82 36.9 .508 .000 .696 4.10 9.40 13.50 1.8 2.60 3.44 3.35 4.00 24.8
89-90 HOU 82 82 38.1 .501 .167 .713 3.60 10.40 14.00 2.9 2.12 4.59 3.85 3.80 24.3
90-91 HOU 56 50 36.8 .508 .000 .769 3.90 9.80 13.80 2.3 2.16 3.95 3.11 3.90 21.2
91-92 HOU 70 69 37.7 .502 .000 .766 3.50 8.60 12.10 2.2 1.81 4.34 2.67 3.80 21.6
92-93 HOU 82 82 39.5 .529 .000 .779 3.50 9.60 13.00 3.5 1.83 4.17 3.20 3.70 26.1


These are his stats BEFORE he won championships. Other than 90-91 season in which he payed 56 games, he hardly missed any game in other seasons. He averaged over 20 points in each and every single season. He never averaged below 2.5 blocks a season and for 3 seasons he averaged over 4 blocks a game. He was a center but he averaged close to 2 steals a game in each of those seasons. He averaged about 12 rebounds a game combined. And his FG% never dipped below 50.

In his second year he and Sampson took down one of the best teams in basketball and went on to Finals. In subsequent years,Sampson blew out his knee and players were lost due to drug problems. Hakeem had to carry a bunch of scrubs year after year. No, he did not take a year or two off like Tmac did with Magic and in Houston. No, he did go down frequently with nagging injuries. He played with fractured bone in his face. He was tough as nails even before 93-94. The difference afterwards was just that he was getting help fro his teammates.

Hakeem was always considered a great player. People who followed Rockets called it Team Hakeem because he was the team. Even before he won championships he was putting up insane numbers in regular seaosn and playoffs. He was one of the 3 or 4 players ever to post a quadruple double. In fact, he did it twice but was robbed once. He is one of the handful whose playoffs numbers go up all across the board. Even before he won championship, he put up some insane numbers against Sonics in playoffs and took them to game 7 overtime. Heck, when Rockets were supposedly shopping Hakeem around, Barkley said he would be glad to play with Hakeem just so that the two can go to war every night. Hakeem was well respected since he came into the NBA.

The only thing people can point out to is how he handled the contract situation. But let it be known that Charlie Thomas was a complete @ss. Hakeem, despite being one of the best players in the league, who had to carry a crappy team year after year, was one of the lowest paid players for what he had been doing. Hakeem was right. Thomas tried to run away instead of paying what Hakeem was worth.

So, if you want to defend Tracy McGrady, go ahead. But do not try to compare Hakeem's situation to Tmac's. One had a huge heart. The other shrinks under pressure and when things are not going his way. It's not even remotely similar. One gave his best year after year despite being surrounded by scrubs. Other has had a history of being a drama queen. Took a whole friggin year off in Orlando and whined until he got traded. Took another year off in Houston because of *personal reasons* landing his team into lottery. WTH was that?! I mean seriously,there is always something going on with this guy.

Tracy Mcgrady's ego has to be constantly nursed. If not, you might be faced with him taking another year off. If Tracy Mcgrady had to deal with an owner like Charlie Thomas he would have never played another game in Houston. Wesibrod anyone? How is this situation similar when Daryl Morey and Rick Adelman have constantly been defending Tracy McGrady while in Hakeem's situation, the Rockets team basically attacked him??

In the end, do I want Tracy traded? No. Because I know we will never get a good deal in return. At this point, as a fan, I have just come to accept that he is a spoiled brat that has to be dealt with and keep hoping that he will, one day, carry this team past the first round of playoffs.

 

Always 2 sides to every story, but the fact was that he was suspended for it, and the Union did not protest.

You decide.

At the end of the day, it was 2 people having a dispute and the team ended up better for it......

Let's hope history repeats itself.

DD

 

Did T-Mac date your sister or something? IF he is as bad as you say, then the smart thing to do is to cut the losses and move on. Because, I am sure that Alexander and Morey want MORE than to get past the first round.

 

Not sure, might have. But I doubt he lasted the whole date with the bad knee and all.

Did you even read what I said? I do not want him traded. But at the same time, he is a spoiled brat. How else do you defend him taking 2 years off with 2 different teams? Sheesh.

Nice selective quoting and missing the point.

 

Co-signed. This has Houston nostalgia written all over it. Never hurts to hear about the glory days.

 

I just quoted that part because the stuff about Hakeem I agreed with. He was thought of as the best center of his time before the championships.

You say you want to keep him but complain that he MIGHT get us out of the first round. Wouldnt it be better if the best you get from him is a MIGHT that you deal him, for picks or whatever so you can make room for players who work well with others and can play a TEAM game to get you to the championship??

 

He has had multiple chances to get his team out of first round. Multiple times in game 5 or game 7s. He has come up short in each and every one of those situations so far.

Based on this, as I said, I am hoping he will lead this team past the first round. You cant blame me for being skeptical based on his track record.

Now, why dont I want him traded? Because despite of all the baggage he carries, he is still one of the top 5 wing players in the league when he decides to play. It is almost a certainty that if Rockets do trade McGrady they will be on the losing end because of the talent disparity they will have to deal with.

So, the best case scenario is to keep nursing his ego and hope that he someday grows up. It does not look too good but that is still the best way to go since Yao and the rest of the team seem to be progressing.

Even if Tracy cannot carry the team, he can still be a big contributor because of the talent he brings. This team is not very talented and trading away one of the most talented players in the league makes no sense at all.