Lance Berkman has an assload to say (Clemens, Pettitte, Wade,Valverde)

Lance has a boatload of trade value. This is because the guy is an all-star calibur player. If we were to trade him away, it would leave a gaping hole in our lineup and leave us without a bona fide first baseman.

I think Lance's agent needs to pull him aside and tell him to stop saying stupid and ugly things about his new teammates.

 

Well folks, it's a good thing that team chemistry doesn't mean nearly as much in baseball as, say, basketball. By the time Spring Training starts, this will be water under the bridge. If not, so be it. The Astros have much bigger problems than Lance Berkman mouthing off.

 

Yes, they do. This does not mean that Lance's repeated public comments are not an issue that needs to be dealt with. I had no idea that he had been poking fun at Matsui. If that is true, it is a problem.

Just because somebody puts a microphone in your face doesn't mean you have to spout some crap into it. Lance needs to play ball and stay away from reporters.

 

And what if nobody deals with it? What if nary a word about any of this is mentioned for the rest of the off-season, spring training, and regular season? Will you hand in your badge as an Astros fan?

The sensitivity here is pretty overwhelming... thank goodness some of you don't have to worry about the daily antics of Manny Ramirez, Barry Bonds, or even Jeff Kent... this place would explode.

 

Well I think you are misinterpreting the reactions of most people. Its not like we are hurt or are feeling over-sensitive, we are pissed off that our "clubhouse leader" is acting like a jackass.

 

Yeah, why should people care about a team's star player calling out basically the entire pitching staff publicly, especially the new guy all the while whining about clubhouse chemistry. How dare we?

 

Bingo.

Don't worry...Nick doesn't get this one. He wants to bring steroids, starting pitching, and now bringing up other people who are irrelevant to obfuscate the basic point that Lance is a joke as a clubhouse leader. A very good player, yes, but NOT a leader.

 

Lance Berkman is to "leader" as Travis Johnson is to "smart".

 

I don't care that he's not a leader... frankly, I don't think this team needs one (and if they do, it will likely be their manager).

I bring up the other issues because they are BIGGER issues, more relevant issues, more newsworthy issues, and will have a bigger impact to this team's production next year.

 

It's odd to me that a veteran guy like Berkman going public blasting his new teammates isn't a big deal. It is a big deal. It is a stupid thing to do, and isn't good for the team. I'm sorry that you don't get that. Berkman's comments serve no purpose other than to make sure the new guys know they aren't welcome.

You bring up the other issues to draw attention from the matter at hand. Those are issues that are important, but not relevant to the matter at hand.

Every time somebody deflects them, you bring up something else. First it was pitching...then steroids...then "you guys should see Bonds, Ramirez, etc." I can hardly wait to see what you try to bring up next.

 

Uhh... its already been brought up, and discussed over and over (and over) again.

Its not being discussed anymore anywhere else... but here. My argument is that perhaps we should do the same and start discussing more important/pertinent issues.

No need to lose sleep over Lance being Lance. He likes to talk... he's done it before (as the whole team already knows). The team will survive.

 

Its one thing if your argument is that you don't have a problem with what Lance is doing, because everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

But its another to say that no one cares about this. Obviously most people other than you do see it as a problem. And this is not "Lance being Lance." Can you tell me when was the last time he called out teammates multiple times and has been a such a jackass in the media? Berkman calling out his pitchers, new 2B, poking fun at teammates, whining about Burke being gone, etc etc is not the same as Lance being a playful prankster.

 

It is Lance being a guy who is trying to alienate himself from his new teammates. He is making it known that he is not happy that they are here, and that he is willing to put pressure on management in the media so they'll think twice about making moves without his approval. I can't imagine why anybody would think this is a problem.

 

And I would tell these "most people other than me" that if they're really concerned about this... to the point that they will fear it carrying over to regular season play, and will effect the way the team performs on the field from here on out... that their concerns are overblown (just like I'm saying to you and refman).

I know you guys have a problem with what he said... hell, everybody here knows that you think its a "big" deal, and needs to be dealt with. So, what do you guys want to do? Suspend him? Trade him? Its gotta be something, since you guys keep bringing it up over and over (and over) again about how this shouldn't be dismissed, and needs to be addressed.

Maybe he hasn't been like "this" to the point where his jokes involve teammates' performance (or lack thereof)... but if you haven't taken some offense to the comments Lance has made in the media before, you haven't been listening.

A few snippets from the last couple of years (anything before that, and Lance would have been considered too young, too unproven, or too naive to ever be taken seriously):
1. Him saying last year, after seeing all the contracts being handed out to lesser players (including Carlos Lee), "Man... I really shouldn't have signed that contract extention... I should have just waited for free agency... jeez!"

2. Had plenty of words to say last year when Burke was sent down early in the season... more along the lines of the team as a whole not performing, including himself (or hell, maybe he was calling out Woody Williams again).

3. On his thoughts of Jeff Kent's clubhouse influence: "Jeff Kent is not a racist. He hates white people, black people, and Latinos equally.”

 

Wow... you're not making any assumptions, or reading too much into this at all. Its no longer Lance being upset... its Lance trying to start a coup against management, usurp authority, force a trade, etc. etc.

And what are your thoughts on guys we've had in the past who actually did dictate moves management made, and literally had final say on certain things like managerial hirings/firings, trades, and free agent signings? Guys who actually did have management thinking twice before they made moves without their approval?
(cough... Biggio... cough... Bagwell).

Or was them having all that power ok because they didn't make an ass of themselves in the media? I don't think it is... and I got news for you, Lance does not have that sort of power.

 

OK...explain to me then why Lance would go and make all these statements in the media, deriding Matsui and Valverde. Threatening to go to management about giving the young guys PT and stating that he was not going to have any fist pumping on his team. That isn't some way to try to get control over management's moves. If you don't think this is what he has in mind, then you are delusional.

 

These are his original quotes:

"I feel like I've been traded to the Astros," he said. "It's a completely different team. It saddens me in a way. All those guys and what we've gone through the last couple of years, it creates a tight bond. It's tough.

"I've been in this organization for 11 years and have played in the minor leagues with a lot of these guys and have seen them come up and develop, and we were very comfortable with each other. It's been a tough offseason for me, personally."


"Valverde had a good year last year, but I am not going to lie," Berkman said. "I am definitely concerned about his antics. He's one of the more demonstrative pitchers in the league, and I know that from playing against him that rubs guys the wrong way.


"It reflects poorly on the team and doesn't do anything but give the opposing team fuel for the next time he goes out. I hope those issues are addressed. This team might take a while from a chemistry standpoint to get together.

"I may not be right about that. We may get in there and everybody clicks, but I do know we had great chemistry in the clubhouse before, and that's a question mark going into the season."

Nowhere in there does he even call out Matsui...and the only thing he says about Valverde is his emotional behavior on the mound; he did actually complement his play. And nowhere in there does he "threaten" management. So you're either joking or you, just like many people here, are jumping to wild conclusions about some relatively tongue-in-cheek comments that have already been dismissed by his teammates.

I seriously cannot believe this s**t has gone on in this long. Who the hell cares anymore...certainly not the Astros; you could argue that never gave his comments much attention in the first place.

 

Or, maybe, you didn't see all the quotes. You realize the whole problem is that he has made comments MULTIPLE times, now. Have you considered that, just maybe, in quoting one article you didn't cover all the things he said?

Well, except that they responded to his comments. And the new Astros that were mocked and criticized might care a bit too, though they aren't here to be interviewed yet.

 

In fact, Woody Williams suggests exactly the opposite:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071218&content_id=2332626&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

Williams said he "strongly" disagrees with Berkman's opinions.

"Chemistry is what you make of it," the veteran starting pitcher said. "It's how you approach people, and it's how open you are with your teammates and how willing you are to get to know different people.

"There's guys that have been here five or six years, and they have a good camaraderie and some good close friendships were made. And now it's time to split them apart, and it's always hard. I know a lot of that's personal for Lance. He's the face of the organization, and he's someone that everyone looks up to, so his concerns concern a lot of people."

 

Exactly. Certain people (with Nick leading the charge) want to just dismiss Berkman's comments as no big deal and unimportant. I think that Woody's comments are pretty telling. He is right that Lance's concerns are a concern to a lot of people.

What is disturbing is that this isn't just one case of Berkman being frustrated and piping off to a reporter. It is now a pattern of behavior.