In 1993, when Aikman won the Super Bowl, he had FOUR OL Pro Bowlers. In 1995, he also had FOUR OL Pro Bowlers. In 1992, he only had THREE. (Poor baby.) In 1998, when Elway won the Super Bowl, he had THREE OL Pro Bowlers. In 2006, when Manning won the Super Bowl, he had TWO OL Pro Bowlers. In 1996, when Favre won the Super Bowl, he had the #1 defense in the league. In 2003, when Brady won the Super Bowl, he had the #1 defense in the league. (And the next year, when he won, he only had the #2 defense.) ... And so on. The point is, football is a TEAM game. You can't point to one guy on an NFL roster and say they're the sole reason why a player won the Super Bowl. It's just not that black and white. Oh, and BTW, Romo has THREE OL Pro Bowlers this year protecting him. Brady also has THREE. Indy currently has the #2 defense in the league, with New England right behind at #4. But I'm sure you knew that, right?
You can't comment on this unless you've watched one Titans game besides the Texans game. Kerry Collins is terrrrrrrrrible. If he doesn't play in the San Diego game the Titans win. The Titans were 0-3 with him starting and this year probably would go 5-11. The Texans have the worst secondary in the league and at the time they played the Titans their d-line wasn't exactly humming either. And again, their defense has allowed 157 points in 6 games. Not exactly a steel curtain. To the other things addressed to me: - Darren McFadden has to be the #1 pick this year. He is a stud like Adrian Peterson. None of those qb's are super prospects - I didn't post here in 2005, but I called Reggie to be a bust. All he ever did in college was turn the corner on slow ass linebackers. And rb's are not close to as valuable as qb's either. Again, I have nothing against Mario, I'm glad he ended up better than Bush. - Mario Williams is a gutless pick. The reason they got bashed by the media is not because everything thought Mario would be bad. They knew he would be good. They were bashed because they passed on potential greatness. I know the media pushed Bush but only after Carr resigned and Texans made it be known they weren't drafting a qb. The fact the Texans resigned Carr is another topic, but clearly he was awful and it was a mistake without hindsite being 20-20. Vince is a gutsy pick because there has never been an nfl talent like him before. They didn't know how he'd project, the upside was through the roof and many feared the downside would be a bust. Titans rolled the dice and my moneys on two+ rings as a reward.
Look there is no question you need a good team to win the super bowl. How many teams had #1 defenses but didn't win it all because they didn't have Brady or Favre? If you scale every position based on importance, qb's get the highest rating no question. You also have to factor that a part of the reason you attract good players is through free agency, who wouldn't want to sign on to play with Brady or Manning? How many valuable members of the Colts and Pats right now were signed after the players saw what these teams/qbs were capable of? How many free agents did the Texans attract with David Carr?
Was the SD game the one where VY led the team to 3 points then when he went out Collins actually had the team moving the ball and scored some points, they just ran out of time?
Holy Mother of God, I'm going to stop arguing with you now if this is what you think. BTW, Pro Football Weekly had Vince rated in 2006 as the #3 prospect, with Mario in front of him at #2. Scout.com had Vince rated as the #9 NFL prospect in 2006 (behind Leinart), while Mario was #2. NFL Draft Countdown had VY as #7 (behind Leinart again), while Mario was #3. I highly, highly, highly doubt Vince would have sniffed the #1 overall pick if the other 30 teams had the first pick in 2006.
No it was the game where the Titans went up 14 early due to Vince being Vince. Then Vince was taken out broefly on a cheap shot and Collins came in and quickly stalled a drive that could've put the game away. Then Vince came back in put Fisher called all runs in the 4th q and ot and they lost the game.
Hey, don't forget about Brad freaking Johnson in 2002 with the TB Bucs. Let's look at the past Super Bowls since the turn of the century, shall we? In 2006, Indy had the #2 offense and the #23 defense. OH NOES! You got me there. In 2005, Pittsburgh had the #9 offense and the #4 defense. In 2004, New England had the #4 offense and the #2 defense. In 2003, New England had the #12 offense and the #1 defense. In 2002, Tampa Bay had the #18 offense and the #1 defense. In 2001, New England had the #6 offense and the #6 defense. In 2000, Baltimore had the #14 offense and the #1 defense. I'm kind of sensing a trend here. Only once did a team win the Super Bowl with a sub-par defense. But-but-but... I thought QBs were primarily responsible for Super Bowls!! OH NOES!!!11
jmftexas, one question. Obviously, statistics aren't relevant because all the Great One does is win. And obviously when he doesn't win, its because his supporting cast isn't good enough. So, is there anything that could now, or at some point in the far future...convince you that Vince is anything other than a HOF level QB. A 2 touchdown 30 interception season perhaps. How about negative 400 yards rushing on the season, would that do the trick. 0-16? Would that do it. I just am curious cause I wanna know what to root for.
What we really need a a quarterback who cannot throw the ball and runs around an awful lot. Signed, The Atlanta Falcons
Indy's defense played out of their minds in the playoffs last season. You don't remember that? So, I'd say your trend is utterly solid. The OL for these teams probably looked pretty good, too.
Great thread, great post jmftexas. I don't have any cool "troll" pictures to post, so I look cool too.
Mario hasn't played a game in which the Texans weren't in the hunt (until this coming weekend), so not sure what you're talking about. And yes, the Titans are one game better than the Texans right now by virtue of a 38-36 head-to-head win. Tell me, who was under center for Tennessee that game? Oh, and scoreboard. You just said Philip Rivers was terrible, but he beat Vince head-to-head. What does that make Vince?
What's more interesting is that the perceived top quarterbacks all have the best teams around them. What a concept!
You are arguing with yourself. Where did I ever say you don't need a good defense to win a championship? My point is, how does Mario Williams automatically give you a great defense? He doesn't. He's had great games and the Texans defense as a whole played poor. He's had non-existant days where the Texans won easily. Mario is a piece to the puzzle. Vince Young is the puzzle. Who were Tom Brady's wide receivers when they won their first super bowl and running back? Great qb' can carry an offense. Vince is playing with no wr and rb help right now, and he's having a winning season. Clearly he's no Brady but it's a good sign he can carry an offense with little help and have a winning season. This will get cyclical as I'll get fired back with Kerry and Titans defense 100 times. Yes, Titans defense bailed out Vince a few times but it worked the other way as well. And no, Kerry Collins is awful and would not do better, thats my opinion but look at his 0-5 start last season as proof. Vince's stats are subpar this season, 100%. He has struggled at times, what young qb hasn't. But you can see flashes of greatness if you watch him every week, I'm sure most here don't. Look at Steve McNair's stats under Jeff Fisher. Never threw more than 24 td's, Never threw over 3,400 yards. Anyone gonna say Steve McNair wasn't a really good qb? Jeff Fishers runs a lot, which 1 makes his defense look better than they are, but 2 makes stats look less impressive. The bottom line is W's, which Fisher knows how to do as does Vince.
What's more interesting is guys like Rany Moss want to play with Tom Brady. Guys like Reggie Wayne and Marvin could've taken more money but wanted to stay with Peyton for less. In fact several big defensive players signed along to play with a winning qb as well.
