It's (way beyond) time for Hayes to come off the bench.

Agreed... Chuck is probably the only starter that makes cuts without the ball right now.

Chuck can't create for himself, but with a motion offense, its not really a necessity to be able to do so. You're supposed to have space and be in a position where you can score as soon as you see the pass. But we're not running anything near a motion offense right now, we're way too stagnant, mostly halfcourt. Chuck may be the only starter that cuts without the ball, but since he can't create, and nobody other than T-Mac can get him the ball in a place where he can score, he's looking like a bigger liability than he really is. The guy is a good, consistent finisher -- he just needs some help first.

I would like to see some more offense in our starting line-up at some point, and I like what Scola can do off of Yao, but I'm not sold on Chuck being a must-replace problem right now.

 

We can and have to play like those teams! If we can't do this, then whats the point of bringing in Adelman

 

You've reduced every thing Chuck does outside of rebounding to a single term "hustles", which obscures all the ways in which he actually helps the team. Name another player on the roster who "hustles" the way Chuck does. Scola doesn't give you the same rebounding or defense. Not close.

Yes, if we had a Chuck Hayes on the bench who could also score away from the basket, put him in. Hell, play him 40 minutes a game. But that player doesn't exist.

I know I'm overreacting here. I'm just really bummed about the loss, and it's frustrating how many people want to pin the blame for it on Chuck Hayes. I've been a supporter of Scola's for a while, and I still think he'll be a good player for us down the stretch. I'm hopeful he'll eventually be good enough to earn starter's minutes. But he's not there yet.

That's what people were saying a year ago as well. Hell, they said it two years ago. "Chuck will never be a starter in this league." Well, he proved them wrong a year ago. Do you know what our record was last season when Chuck was starting? Of course, that's not all on him. But it's a fact that our best lineup a year ago had Chuck in it.

This summer, again I heard that Chuck shouldn't be starting. That no coach other than JVG would dare start him. Well, in comes Adelman, an offensive-minded coach. And still he continues to play Chuck in that starting lineup. Feigen reports that the Rocket coaches and scouts gush about all the things he does for the team, and we're not talking about a JVG coaching staff here. So maybe you guys should back off these "No other team in the league would ever start Chuck" comments. That was already disproved this season, when a new team with a new coaching staff continued to start him.

 

Folks are pinning the loss on everyone including Clutch the mascot and the RPDs. Fact is, you let Dallas score 38 points in the 4th quarter, you gonna lose. Defense (and all 5 on the court are responsible for defense) cost the Rockets the game.

 

having rafer, battier and hayes in at the same time is like having adam everett, ausmus, and tavares in the lineup together....you can live with one or two of them for defense but if you have all 3 on at the same time its a liability for the team

 

So basically we need an all-star at the 4? hmm... yes, I totally agree, have anybody in mind that we could sign for the vet min?

And him being the worst player out of all starting PFs in the league is pure BS.

As somebody said, it's as if people don't watch the games.

 

Look man..... the guy is good as a SF and maybe PT at some power forward, but he is 6'5.....6'5. You cannot be serious? Barkley was good at rebounding dunking shooting. Rodman was GREAT at everything defensively and he was 6'8 but played like he was 6'10. Hayes is a bench player! That's it

 

Barkley and Rodman are HOF caliber players, in my view. I'm not saying Chuck is even close to them. Few PFs in today's game are.

That in itself doesn't mean we're better with Chuck on the bench.

And these sorts of statements -- "Player X is a bench player!" -- don't make any sense to me. Whether you're a starter or a bench player isn't imprinted in your DNA. How you should be used in the rotation depends on who else is on the team.

 

Chuck Hayes is nowhere near the skillset of an effective 3, and I guess you only say that because of his size. Chuck is what he is, and even being undersized has been arguably the best player on the floor for us.

Are we watching the same Hayes, because your small forward version sounds more potent offensively, in which case none of you haters could deny Chuck's monstrous impact on the game. If Chuck was a 3, then that implies some offensive potency, some semblance of footwork which Chuck doesn't really offer. If he could bring these things to the game, in addition to the 'hustle' and 'banging', then he would be coveted by most teams in the league.

 

Wow. With logic like this, its no wonder you'd start this thread.

Over the past two season, here are the leaders in rebound rate amongst players who've played at least 1000 minutes:

Code:

          player              MP     Rb-R
1       Reggie Evans         2519    22.1
2       Dwight Howard        6044    20.7
3       Jeff Foster          3320    20.6
4       Dikembe Mutombo      2243    20.5
5       Marcus Camby         4225    20.1
6       Tyson Chandler       4643    20.1
7       Carlos Boozer        3581    19.5
8       Kevin Garnett        5952    19.5
9       David Lee            2859    19
10      Erick Dampier        3851    18.9
11      Al Jefferson         3381    18.8
12      Tim Duncan           5509    18.7
13      Emeka Okafor         3202    18.7
14      Jamaal Magloire      4168    18.4
15      Ben Wallace          5587    18.2
[B]16      Chuck Hayes          2248    18[/B]
17      Drew Gooden          4412    17.9
18      Nazr Mohammed        2162    17.7
19      Samuel Dalembert     4294    17.6
20      Paul Millsap         1472    17.5

Wow, look at all the guards on that list. Look at all the players there who are clearly mediocre rebounders, despite what this bogus stat says!

By contrast, here's the leaders in per game rebounders over the previous two years:

Code:

        [B]Name                 MPG     RPG [/B]
1       Kevin Garnett        39.2    12.8
2       Dwight Howard        36.9    12.4
3       Marcus Camby         33.5    11.8
4       Ben Wallace          35.1    11
5       Emeka Okafor         34.4    10.9
6       Carlos Boozer        33.5    10.8
7       Tim Duncan           34.4    10.8
8       Shawn Marion         39      10.8
9       Tyson Chandler       30.5    10.6
10      Chris Bosh           38.9    10
11      Yao Ming             34      9.8
12      Elton Brand          38.8    9.6
13      Jermaine O'Neal      35.5    9.5
14      Lamar Odom           39.9    9.4
15      Amare Stoudemire     32.2    9.4
16      Pau Gasol            37.9    9.3
17      Zach Randolph        35      9
18      Dirk Nowitzki        37.2    8.9
19      Antawn Jamison       39.1    8.7
20      Chris Kaman          31      8.7

Anyone who thinks this second list is more indicative of who the best rebounders are clearly doesn't know anything about the game.

 

Nice thing about Chuck is he has positive impact off the bench as well. He's not one of those guys that needs to "start" to perform. Plus he's signed rather inexpensively so its not like he's gonna under-perform from what he's being paid.

 

At this point, you could bring Chuck off the bench and he's still gonna get 30 minutes if he's not in foul trouble..........because one or both of Yao and Scola is gonna get in foul trouble. We have trouble with all of our bigs and fouls. So, it really doesn't matter if he goes to the bench, he's still gonna see the same amount of minutes.

It's being able to recognize matchups that is the issue. A player like Duncan or Garnett or Nowitzki. Who are we gonna get at the 4 that will defend them better and provide a bigger offensive threat??? They're not out there.

Now it is possible that next year we may be able to add a big 4 that brings O and some D, like say, Antwan Jamison??? But tell me, where is the tall, rangy PF that will give us everything that Chuck gives us and more, that is available, that we could have on this roster? They're just not out there. You've got guys like that kid from Cleveland wanting $8-$9 mill a year. You've got guys like KMart that are consistently hurt and are making $12-$14 mill per as garbage men putting up 12-8. Donyell Marshall is out there making over $5 mill per and playing a whopping 2 games this year. He can shoot it a little bit but don't see why Clev would take Rafer and trash for him. We might be able to throw them Snyder, Head, Novak and take on his salary. I wouldn't do that deal. Oh.............Lil CHUCKER is out there to be had. We could probably swing a trade for Antoine Walker for Rafer, Luther, Kirk, and Novak. WHO IS OUT THERE THAT IS BETTER or who are you gonna put out there from this unit that would be able to even eat up the minutes without fouling out? Have you checked Scola's foul rate? He can't stay on the court. I'm all for giving him minutes but if he fouls out and puts the opponent in the bonus with 8 minutes left in the quarter, what good is that?

Chuck is our best post defender. About the only thing he really can't do is block a shot from a long rangy forward that is facing up from 15 feet and further out, unless he times them from the back like he did Nowitzki the other night. But I'll take Duncan facing up from 15+ feet out over him posting up all day long, and if you notice, when we play SA, Duncan starts shooting that 15-18 footer off the glass, because even he does not want to go wallering down in the paint with Lil Chuckie. Now granted, Duncan hits quite a few of those shots, but it's the best option at keeping out of the paint and off the glass where his effectiveness goes through the roof.

Our primary problem with the offense is we have no threat at the PG. This allows the opponent defender to sag off him into the lane and clog everything up. Until we get a point guard that makes the defense pay for that and opens up the paint area for Yao to operate, we are gonna struggle.

 

Who do you think our third best player has been? It's clearly between Battier and Chuck, as everyone else has been horrible. It's a toss up between those two.

But go ahead. Just say with a straight face that Bonzi Wells or Mike James or Luther Head or Luis Scola or Rafer Alston has been our third best player.

 

You tuff Durvasa. But it's true.

It just goes to show. It's not Chuckie's fault. It's not Rafer's fault either. The coach has to make the adjustment. You take Chuckie out and still run Rafer out there, Rafer is still gonna be chucking because the defense is funneling the ball to him and then we have more porous defense because Scola is just not the same defender Chuck is at this point.

Now if we had a banging point that could put it in the hole and defend a little, it might make some sense to run Scola out there more in place of Hayes. And Scola does need to be out there in place of Yao if teams go small on us like Dallas did and run Bass out there and we do not come up with an offensive solution to get the ball to Yao and abuse them with out size offensively.

 

BTW, basketball-reference shows "most similar player seasons" based on stats for every player season.

Guess who was most similar to Chuck Hayes last year? Kurt Rambis in the 1984-1985 season (further, Chuck is Kurt's most similar player, so statistically they are very close). Kurt averaged 20 mpg for that Laker ballclub, and he even started 46 of 82 regular season games. I'm not sure if he was the starter in the playoffs, but he did play 20 mpg in the post season. The Lakers won the championship that year.

So, there you have it. A Chuck Hayes type player who played a significant role, even as a starter, on a championship team. Oh, but no championship caliber team would dare start a player like Chuck Hayes! Particularly an offense-oriented team.

Yeah, right.