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Rafer Alston vs. Mike James vs. Steve Francis

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Nov 16, 2007.

  1. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    In 10 minutes, he had 0 points, 2 rebound, and 3 turnovers. He struggled defensively on Dirk. And on a night when Chuck was playing very well and the team was playing great while he was on the floor, I just don't see what good it would have done to replace him with Scola. If anything, maybe Scola should have gotten some more minutes in place of Yao to give him some extra rest.

    Agreed.

    Again, agreed. Luther was killing me this game. But Bonzi is like 2-18 in the last 3 games. He has the same number of points as turnovers. So, he's not exactly inspiring confidence either.

    I haven't been a big Francis supporter this year, but this is the first game where I really felt we could have used him (in place of Luther).
     
  2. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Maybe. Or the opposite could also happen. If they're rolling against good teams, the coach has more of incentive to sub in a lesser replacement. If the team is down, then the coach may be more reluctant to sub in a lesser replacement.

    Adjusted +/- does take into account opposing lineups, btw.
     
  3. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    Good post. And you very craftily avoided Scola's +/-. You went to his stat line.

    I really don't think Scola and Bonzi were the reason for the loss. The reason for the loss was the lack of adjustment on Bass and the backcourt of Head/James. Bonzi is a guy that you have to get the ball to in the right spot. As soon as he gets a pin down on his man on that right mid post, he should be thrown the ball and everybody run through for the iso. Our point guards plain don't know how to get him the ball. They get it to him late and in traffic or he picks up an offensive board and has to put it back up in traffic. He should get the durn ball as soon as he comes over to the right side and flashes high. They wait until he has to run clear out to the 3 point line and face up and that's not his game. Or they don't get him the ball at all. It's recognition man. Sure, he's struggling. They don't know how to use him properly. And they is Luther/Rafer/James, not Adelman. Those three guys keep missing him and dribbling the ball to the other side then throwing it back around when he is facing up at the 3 line.

    Scola? Diop????? You mean to tell me Scola wouldn't be a matchup nightmare for Diop???? Bass??? You mean to tell me Scola couldn't defend Bass better than Yao????

    Come on now. You gotta find ways to get Scola and Bonzi going.
     
  4. tcadriel

    tcadriel Member

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    Where's the bench? Same starting five? All getting over thirty minutes? The bench all got around 15 minute or less, with Head getting more minute than anyone? I for one would like some answers Adelman. Forget our record, straight answers from Rick! He's the one that need to answer Rafer vs James vs Head vs Francis. Does he need some video from the past couple of seasons? I like Chuck, but 2 points in thirty minutes? Rafer put some points on the board, and he probably wont do that for a while, but what about the turnovers from Rafer and Head coming down the stretch. We all know that Head is NOT a PG and Rafer can't hit the side of the barn. The best rafer can do is get 5-8 ft from the basket and toss up floaters. Anyhow get a clue Rick, or at least some video. :(
     
  5. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Well, I said initially I don't usually like to focus on +/- for individuals in a single game. I did so with Chuck, because it was very stark -- +18 with him, -22 without. That's an unusually high On/Off differential, so it was worth mentioning.

    As for Scola, he was -8 in 10 minutes. Not sure how helps your argument.

    Bonzi isn't lacking in touches. This season, he's attempting 17.4 shots (taking into account free throws) and getting 3.4 turnovers per 40 minutes. Two seasons ago, when he was in Sacramento, he took 16.6 shots and had 3.0 turnovers per 40 minutes. According to 82games, 54% of his shots are close to the basket this year, compared to 50% two years ago. The difference: he shot 60% on those attempts in Sacramento, and he's at 40% (terrible) so far this year.

    Bonzi is just sucking right now. I don't think that can be blamed on anyone but him. He's had ample post up opportunities and ISO's, but he hasn't converted efficiently on those plays except for a couple games.

    Subbing in Scola for Yao might have made some sense. I'm not sure how much better he would have been defensively (Yao was very good on the boards, and contesting shots around the basket), but at least it would have given Yao some rest. What I disagreed with was giving Chuck's minutes to Scola.

    And Bonzi just needs to get himself going. Last year it was the coach. This year it's his teammates. I'm not buying those excuses. Bonzi has played over 800 minutes as a Rocket, and he's got an 8.7 PER. It's on him.
     
  6. oschadha

    oschadha Contributing Member

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    Bonzi is a lazy SOB. You can judge Bonzi's effort by how many rebounds he grabs. Case in point - last night 0 rebounds. Dude is capable of pulling down 8 to 9 rebounds a game.
     
  7. King1

    King1 Contributing Member

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    Unless you keep Skip as a backup then you might as well trade them all (except Brooks and Head). We still need a consistant third scorer, Rafer still can't shoot, and we still have no interior defense. What looked liked depth was a mirage. sadly, nobody is going to take rafer as anything more then a backup, the market is pretty low as well for a guy whom nobody who has wanted to play with for like 4 years and another who's already been in the media requesting a trade. Same problem, different year. Our best bet is to pray these guys improve.
     
  8. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    This is where softness kills the Rockets
    When you play soft. . the refs call the game soft
    If someone steps up and gets testie with the lil snots
    then the refs say.. . WHOA!! This could get out of hand. . let's call a tight game
    but
    since no one does. .they let them play 'their game'
    and we b*tch about it being unfair

    The refs have to be reminded that if they don't handle it. . . WE WILL!!
    and they don't want that. .. but T-Mac and Yao don't do that
    so
    they get hacked to hell and just bend over and take it

    Rocket River
     
  9. poprocks

    poprocks Member

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    This metric also reveals why our starting 5 are Yao, TMac, Alston, Battier and Hayes.
     
  10. WilliamGCash

    WilliamGCash Member

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    Aaron Brooks will be starting by mid-season next year and put an end to all this whining
     
  11. King1

    King1 Contributing Member

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    Hopefully he can develop. You guys who are complaining about defense though are going to be really angry when you see Brooks play d. As in he can't guard anyone
     
  12. aamir

    aamir Member

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    ...what games are you watching?

    82games.com has James being penciled in as our point for 48% of the minutes this season (the only position he's played all year). James often does bring the ball up, and when he doesn't, he's one of the first options to receive the ball in the backcourt to initiate the offense.

    That's Adelman playing James at the point.

    If you can't see that, then James must be playing his position even worse than I thought. Adelman gives players a role, but players make the decisions on the court.

    Battier may not be playing point, but he does a better job facilitating the offense than James. As does T-Mac. As does Yao. As does Bonzi. As does Scola. As does Luther.

    None of those players have played a minute at point this year.
     
  13. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    James was playing PG earlier in this season. Last few games, he really hasn't.

    Also, 82games uses a computer algorithm to decipher positions on the court. Luther played SG a lot last year, and Mike played PG a lot. So that's how the positions 82games assigns them when they're together. It doesn't actually mean Mike James is being used as the PG.
     
  14. aamir

    aamir Member

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    I didn't know about the algorithm, so I have to thank you for that (though slightly strange, since Alston definitely played PG more than James last year, yet Alston has seen some minutes at SG this year... presumably with James).

    But what exactly do you consider playing the point? Every account we've heard about Adelman's offense, by himself and all others, has said its a player's option with limited structure. We've seen James, yes in the last few games as well, often playing as the primary ball handler, the guy who brings the ball up-court and as a first option to start the offense in the back-court. That's all James has ever really brought to the table in the traditional sense of being a point guard, and there hasn't been any change to that in the last few games. It's why every other non-point guard can still look better than James at facilitating the offense -- that is NOT his game, by his choice.

    He's on the court as a point guard playing the same game he's played for his career as a point guard. IMO, his shot being so off is just making his negatives more blatant.
     
  15. poprocks

    poprocks Member

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    I tend to trust the stats a bit more. From what I can see with my own two eyes and what the stats tell us is that James has an overall negative impact on our point differential. This is not the guy you want playing signicant minutes on your squad.

    That being said, I found Mutumbo's +/- stats from last year and he's another one that brings a positive impact to the game. In fact Mutumbo is rated number 24 in all players who played less than 1640 minutes just ahead of Francis. His +/- adjusted score is 1.18 and he played 1289 minutes last year. I'd like to find a way to give him a few more minutes too. We need to find a way to get Mutumbo and Francis more minutes. Scola is a work in progress and will eventually be very very good but so far in all his games, the unit seems to play less efficiently when he's on the floor.

    It's Bonzi, James, Snyder, Head who have been sucking it up on the floor. Rafer's teardrop doesn't make you jump for joy either but he had a tolerable 3 point shot last year.
     
  16. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

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    <br>
    fixed it for ya :cool:
     
  17. poprocks

    poprocks Member

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    The big three alone at Boston account for the following +/- stat

    Garnett 12.35
    Pierce 7.24
    Allen 2.93

    Rockets best players

    T-Mac 3.45
    Yao 4.25
    Alston 2.09
    Battier 1.38
    Hayes 1.36

    Total Boston +32.52 with just the big three vs Houston with +12.52 if you add all our starters up. This is why Boston has only lost one game so far.

    We are a long ways away from a Boston calibur team.
     
  18. poprocks

    poprocks Member

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    One last post and it's off for Turkey Day for me. The only way to overcome our offensive deficiencies is to stress defense. If you can slow the game down and take opposing games out of their rhythm and force them to take bad shots, you have a chance of being in the game. We have to go back to fundamentals and that is to box out, take good high percentage shots and minimize turnovers. That's really the only way to take out the Suns/Mavs/Celtics. I won't say this for the Spurs because we already match up with them extremely well. But for fast athletic teams, we gotta slow down and control the tempo. We have to try to minimize their possessions while maximizing our own.
     
  19. stthomsfinest

    stthomsfinest Member

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    I'm over here on Youtube salivating over old Steve Francis mix videos. And yeah sure most of those were from his younger days but I believe he's still capable of doing 75-80% of what is plastered all over those vids. He's shown that in the miniscule time that we've seen him play so far. (the sick tip slam vs. New Orleans,breaking down defenders and penetrating w/ the numerous 3 pt plays vs. Memphis in preseason)

    These past three years that Steve was off the team were the years we were hurting the most for a player LIKE Steve to complement Tmac and Yao. And in that time to make up for the guard slot we had :David Wesley,Jon Barry,Bobby Sura,Rafer Alston UGH! That just doesn't cut it.

    We don't need him jackin up threes, we don't need him dribbling the ball all confused at the three point line. Heck he can get a good 15 points a night without throwing up a single shot! All can come from the charity stripe. The guy can draw more fouls than D-Wade in the NBA Finals. If Francis is in there with Tmac and Yao, Francis' flaws will be covered and his strengths will be abundant. Any team that's dumb enough to double any of them will be screwed. It's so obvious that Francis is the best pick over all of them because of his name alone.

    Francis wins hands down. He needs to start, Mike James could stick to his old 04-05 season role of bench spark and Rafer should be used sparingly.
     
  20. LikeMike

    LikeMike Contributing Member

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    I would say we should try to trade for a reasonable good PG. Take RA, and put im someone like Luther, Kirk, Novak and/or draft picks and try to get a PG that can get the job done and guard the quick PGs of the other teams. We don`t need a Steve Nash or Chris Paul, an André Miller or Calderon could get the job done.

    In the meantime: get Steve Francis in the line up. We`ve seen what RA and MJ can do. It`s sometime pretty good, other times pretty bad. They lack consistency and RA is missing way too many jobs. If for nothing else get Steve Francis some playing time, so he can be put into games when one of our other guards is having a bad night.
     

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