I totally agree. Stupid move, followed by another one. Nope, I'm good. Perhaps I was taught in a different school system (public, no less) in a different area, and had un-revised text books? Who doesn't realize it was already mentioned in post #9?
You misunderstand...I was just saying your wording struck me as funny, I was not making fun of you or trying to twist your words or anything. Usually when people say "the (whatever group or people) I know" it is a qualification that allows for that statement to not be universal. Obviously, all Baptists believe in Jesus so I was just being silly. Sorry you misunderstood and got offended. As for the Christian holiday thing...well...harvest celebration meals were practiced by Native Americans before the Plymouth settlers ever came and really just about every culture has such things. The European half of the "First Thanksgiving" was certainly Christian but the holiday is supposed to symbolize the unification of different peoples and the creation of a cooperative "America".
Check. And check. No problem. Sorry if I was ruffled. My meaning too was that the first "coinage" of the term "Thanksgiving" in english (albeit not an official holiday until waaaaaaaaay later) was done by Christian people. Again, for the record, I am not against Interfaith... I am not against this church's right to go by their own rules either... I think Major summed it best. And two wrongs do not make a right... And that is definitely against the spirit of the holiday and Christ's teachings. It's also just all about being able to play "devil's advocate" here and see both sides. And as to my comment about it not being a public place... well, I meant it. If it was however a public place that made this announcement, or especially a government, i.e. municipal building or the like... I think then there would be an issue. It is unfortunate that any of this happened based on unwarranted ignorance... which is really... stupidity.
Me and scripture just don't work, i guess! post#10 was the first to refer to a specific section of verse, so I'm sticking to that!!!
If "The Quarries" is considered church ground..then I can completely understand the move. It would be sacriligious to hold a muslim prayer at a Christian Church. I would NEVER consider going into a mosque and Holding a Christian prayer. That would be sacriligious to Muslims. Many times when someone says "interfaith", they are talking about different christian religions such as Catholic, baptist, etc..coming together. However, I do think that the Baptist Church should have questioned what was going to happen at the event and been more informed in the beginning. Since it is such a late date now, I think the Baptist Church has a moral responsibility to help find a new location, and possibly help with the costs of switching locations.
Inviting non-Christians to a Christian ceremony or event is different than inviting Christians to a non-Christian ceremony or event. The Thanksgiving celebrations were religious, particularly Christian in concept from the start. Thanksgiving Nothing is exclusive, but most everything has context and purpose. The context of Thanksgiving day is several adopted celebrations that govt. officials eventually proclaimed to be a holiday based upon religious beliefs. The purpose of the celebration and proclamation was to thank God, a view held and promoted specifically by Christians. I don't think there where non-Christians championing the establishment of this holiday. As for inter-faith meetings; I love them. As for making Thanksgiving an interfaith; meeting that should be up to the interfaiths, the Christians and the rest. I certainly celebrate Thanksgiving with a Christian context and purpose. I invite all faiths, all peoples to join in. As for what happened with this church, I would not have taken their course of action, I love to talk to people who don't believe like me.
From reading the link the Thanksgiving we celebrate now is the one of the Pilgrims and not the Berkeley settlement. At the Plymouth Colony Christians did set about having a feast of thanks giving but they were doing so partly to honor the pagan Sqanto and local native Americans who without their help they might not have survived. While as religious people they gave it religious overtones but without the participation of the pagan Native Americans there wouldn't have survived to have it. It seems to me that the first Thanksgiving was truly an interfaith gathering as non-Christians were essential to it and making it an exclusively Christian holiday ignores that aspect.
Interesting then that the prayers... whether they be Islamic, Christian, Buddhist, whatever... were acceptable in a Jewish Temple. I understand 'religious' restrictions, I just don't believe that they're always consistent with spiritual goals or teachings. In this case, it doesn't sound very Christian to me.
I think we can agree that your view of what is Christian and what isn't Christian is probably the same as my view on what is Islamic and what isn't Islamic. Which is to say that it probably isn't as well-informed as a practicer of said religion. I welcome discussions and meeting with people of different religions, but I don't support the practice of it in a Church and from what I see in the New Testament, neither would Jesus. If an interfaith meeting is only about meeting and discussions, I think Jesus would definetely welcome that.
Eh. I don't know. We did a deal one year with a local mosque where we had dinner with a Muslim family at Thanskgiving. The idea was the mosques, as they sought to fight off negative concepts of themselves in this country post-9/11 with this sort of thing. We prayed to God. Maybe they meant someone different than I meant. But I'm pretty sure He heard us anyway. I think God's a lot bigger than people give him credit for. I promise you, I'm not 100% right about his nature. But with God, in my view, you start first with the premise that you're absolutely loved by Him, no matter what you think of Him. I believe Jesus to be unique. I believe him to be who he said he was. But I don't have such a high view of the sanctity of a church building (maybe because my church meets in a local community theater) that I find this wrong or offensive in any way. Having said that, I perfectly understand this particular church had the right to say, "eh...we don't wanna do this."
I just find it hard to see Jesus saying that he is the only way to heaven and then being ok with people praying to another "deity" inside his house of worship.
If you believe Jesus is who he claims to be than there's nothing particularly special about that place of worship. All of it belongs to him, anyway. We set up false dichotomies about the sacred and the secular which fly in the face of everything else we claim about God. If God is God, then he's God at your church, he's God at Minute Maid Park, he's God at the mosque down the street, he's God at the courthouse and in the schools. He doesn't stop being God when you walk out of your church...He doesn't begin being God when you walk in.
I do think there's something to be said about the sanctity of a place of worship. It is hard for me to believe that Jesus doesn't care about that particular boundary when he drove out those people from the temple.
I hear ya. But your local church building and the Temple are two very, very different things. I've seen church services done under bridges...I've seen church services done in homes...I've seen church service done in parks...I've seen church services done in theaters. It's all sacred. There's no distinction in my mind. All of it belongs to God. This hits on a pet peeve of mine...that in America we've come to define church as either: a. a place or a building; b. a time of the week. I do not believe church to be these things. A church is a group of people.
hmm, you make sense in that. I'm ont a fan of the current Church model myself. It tends to be a nest of politics and just stupidity sometimes. ok here's another thought then. Let's say during the early Church years when they were meeting in each other's houses, do you think they would have permitted people of another faith to pray in their houses to their own "deity"?
I don't know. I have no problem with someone praying to God, though. Usually in interfaith services you just hear people say "God." You want hear reference to Muhammed or to Jesus or to anyone else. I believe we're all praying to the same God...because I believe there's only one. And I believe he's hearing all of us...even when we're not intending to be talking to him. We may not be theologians...we may not all agree on who it is we're talking to and his nature. God loves us all anyway. It starts there. For instance...I went to Friday prayers at a mosque once. I went with my pastor who was doing a sermon series on comparative religion We found ourselves praying in this service. Now everyone was speaking Arabic (or some foreign tongue I didn't understand)...I used the time for prayer. I didn't change my prayers because I was there. I was silent in prayer... I would never seek to be so bold as to offend someone with prayer. God heard me. God heard them. I got up from prayer. Shook the hand of the guy next to me who welcomed me to his mosque. We met with the iman for a while who was kind enough to give me a copy of the Koran and some other literature. I would not want someone who was Muslim to come to my church and to disingenuously pray "in the name of Christ" simply because they were there. That's form over substance. But even if they did....God remains God. I don't believe He's offended by that nearly so much as He's offended by our apathy for the suffering in this world.
Couldn't agree more with this... Since we don't have a building we call our church- the Church on the Run (old Wings Song)- We move around quite a bit, mostly we meet at homes and cafes except on Sunday where we meet anywhere we can find.
Myself, I could never do that. It's hard for me to see past the part where He says he's the only way to heaven. The way I see it, if it wasn't a big deal who you pray to, then the Great Commission wouldn't exist. However, I respect the hell out of your point of view, and I certainly can understand it. My comfort level doesn't quite go that far though
Very well said, Max. I'm more annoyed by the logistics of it than the religious implications. What did Hyde Park think was going to happen with the Interfaith service? Who is that stupid to not realize it? Then to basically kick them out last second was incredibly rude and, IMO, very un-Christian. I commend Beth Israel for stepping in.
