Standing by my Comments

Hey DreamShake, do you also have the numbers for the Rockets' playoff performances over those same 3 years? Just curious to see what those look like as well. Thanks!

 

Dreamshake,

We are not playing a "run-n-gun" offense...nor is Rudy "letting them dictate" the offense they want.

The offense system is beginnning to show up, now. I ready to call it a 24-second clock Flex. ie., the Flex with more patterned plays that college.

We are using the basic Flex to get Francis in the low post, Clear-out Flex to get Francis one-on-one wing, and the Double Pick to give Walt, Bullard and Dream shots. We have also added the Zipper play for Francis to get him in the lane, and a weaving pick off of a double high post to isolate him on the wing. Rogers/Thomas play a high post Option pass. In transition 3-3 and 4-4, we often go quickly into our motion offense after the defense stops the fastbreak. This involves a PF trailer going straight down the lane and picking a guard to come back out for a standard motion set. Often the guard is open coming out of the lane, or the trailer gets ball in the low post with no double-team.

Dreamshake...there are many things happening on this court. They were happening Game 1. It takes quite awhile for a motion offense to settle in. Players must learn where each other are, and where each other like to get the ball. Rudy did not just happen onto this nor did he simply let Francis start playing.

 

Oh yeah, Rudy sucks allright. Let's look at his resume

Never won a championship (except for those two championships)

Never made a good and bold draft choice (except Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, Cuttino Mobley, Kenny Thomas, Othella Harrington. . .)

Never bothered to rebuild the franchise (except for Steve Francis, Shandon Anderson, Cato, etc.)

Never attracted any quality free agents (except for Kevin Willis, Scottie Pippen, Shandon Anderson, etc)

Never gained the respect of the players, coaches and gms throughout the league (except for everyone)

yeah, he sucks.

CBrownFanClub

 

yep...we aren't seeing the same game.

Try not staring at the ball-handler and you might see all the picks out there. It is a complicated motion offense involving picks on the ball and away from the ball, but one that pros should be able to execute especially with a fine PG.

Yes, I broke down Francis's post-Barkley stats. But that is as much about accelerating the development of the new system started in camp as it is about giving Steve the ball more.

If you really haven't seen double picks for Bullard, Dream and Walt, then you should consider not writing posts about offensive schemes and stick to stats only.

Let's see, we beat Miami on Bullard picking for Francis and rolling to 3pt range ONE PASS AWAY (that's a pick n roll) and Brown couldn't get around the dble picks. Bullard ripped off our first 10 points against Seattle cause Vin Baker couldn't get through the double picks, we did the same thing against Howard and Wash. The moment Walt started getting his touch back, we started doing a double pick into the lane weak side from the clear-out Flex. Tell me you haven't seen Walt hit several 18 ft-ers in the middle.

Also, much of Rogers and Cato slams are due to back picks.

We are definitely not seeing the same games.

 

I have to agree with heypartner on this one.

Steve is getting quite a few picks, sometimes even double picks. Many of those picks are to get the passing lanes open to create better shots for Steve as well as his teammates. He's not the number one scoring option because he is expected to get the offense flowing. Yea, he will be scoring the most points any given night, but we can't rely on him to be the Allen Iverson of this team otherwise we'll go nowhere.

Rudy isn't married to the low-post offense like in past years. The offense has changed enough to move away from the low-post offense without totally abandoning it. We must have some low-post plays to keep the opposing defense honest.

Why blast Rudy for his draft choices? Most of the players listed as "fine aquisitions" were second rounders that were never really expected to have an impact anyhow.

As for Venson Hamilton, we haven't even seen him play so what is the point of even naming him?



------------------
The key for the Rockets is a winning attitude and mentality which can only be had by winning basketball games.

 

Yes, but Rudy didn't CHOOSE to abandon the post-up offense... it was forced upon him. Generally, scholars of Russian history say that Yeltsin was a greater man that Gorbechev, even though Gorby actually did more, and was less corrupt... why? Because Yeltsin embraced change, while Gorby merely did what he had to. I think that if Barkley and Hakeem hadn't been injured, we'd still be dumping it in. Remember when the Rockets were 2-10... Rudy didn't want to leave that offense... he called it his "security" blanket, and said he didn't know what they'd do w/o it. What the heck? They were 2-10... might as well try something to develop... you can't play WORSE THAN THAT.

I don't think we should fire Rudy... but I think he's an average coach: great with the players, awful with strategy.

 

Haven and Dreamshake

Ask one player what camp was like, before you say Rudy wasn't installing the motion offense back in October, but rather was forced into it by Barkley's injury. I think you clinging to old grudges here.

If you could just pour motion sets onto any new group of players, Coach K would bottle it and make a million, and Bobby Knight would sue him for copyright infringement.

College coaches are overrated on their "complicated" schemes (compared to NBA coaches), because they have 45-seconds to find a shot,,,much easier to implement motion. In the 24 sec clock, you must attach several peripheral plays to every set, because you don't have time to go to option #1 and re-"Flex" when its defended.

You guys are seriously downplaying the time it takes to establish coordinated motion, and how hard it is to get ten millionaires to execute it. Rudy has done it in less than four months. There is plenty of praise to go around...why dismiss the coaches here. Doesn't make sense.

And I say this after 3 years of being a Rudy basher myself. I know where you guys are coming from, but I just don't buy my own arguments from previous years anymore. I've learned to open my eyes and give Rudy a chance to back what he promised in October.

He set this offense in motion the day he got Francis, not when he lost Barkley. Losing Barkley just made him use Mobley ISOs a lot in December as one of the few effective tools until everyone got comfortable with the offense and each other.


[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited January 24, 2000).]

 

You guys are wasting your time.

Dreamshake has been dogging Rudy (and Mobley) since he got here. He has the innate ability to assimilate a few words and a few stats into something that almost makes his logic look sound. I must also give him kudos for his tenacity, although it seems somewhat redundant for him to entitle a thread, "Standing by my comments;" -- he will never admit the error of his ways.

Rudy T. may not be the best NBA coach in the world (but then again, he may just be), but he's the best we've got, and he's damn sure the best we've had available to us. About the only coach that people with two legs to stand on could argue is just as good or better (and available) would have been Phil Jackson; and although he was "available," he wasn't coming here. He had his sights set on what he thought was a sure thing--like he had in Chicago. He could never handle the adversity that the Rockets have seen over the past few years.

The Rockets had to fight and claw for those two championships we got, and as great as Hakeem was, he couldn't do it all by himself. Rudy and Co. had to inspire a bunch of role players to over achieve to help out the big man get that first ring.

And when it looked like other teams figured that out, Rudy and Co. pulled Drexler out of their butts to get us that second ring. And as much pure genius was in that move--there was a lot of luck too. It was a miracle the team could not only succeed in the middle of the season with such a big move, but also actually excel.

And later, when our glaring weakness at power forward became evident, Rudy and Co. were able to get us Charles.

And when our next glaring weakness became the health of our two big guns, Rudy and Co. were able to get us another of the fifty greatest in Quitten.

And when Pippen had a complete mental breakdown, Rudy and Co. were able to get us the hottest point guard to come out of the draft in well.....since forever.

You can't go after these big time players with the loose change you find under your couch. You have to give up quite a bit to get them--your best hope is to give up less than you get. Each time you make these changes, your team undergoes huge personnel changes. You might be able to compete immediately, but you know it may take years for these players to gel enough to win it all. Still, if you know the status quo ain't gonna cut it--neither now nor next year, and if you have the ability, you go for the holy grail and you make the big-time changes Rudy and Co. have made. You can't foresee Hakeem spending so much time down with injuries. You can't predict when Drexler will opt for coaching over playing. You can't predict when Charles will be lost forever. You sure as hell can't predict the sudden appearance of Scottie Pippen's evil twin. Every year it's something different, and every year Rudy and Co. have gone for the gusto to make this team the best it can be, and just as importantly, a team that remains exciting for the fans. But in order for them to do that, they've had to make big-time changes in personnel. As a fan, it's exciting--but we have to accept the trade-offs; and the biggest is the simple fact that we have to be patient while this team--this new team that we seem to have each and every year--needs time to gel.

Who knows--maybe Hakeem will settle into his diminished role--one that will allow him to compete at his current level for a few more years. Maybe (hopefully) Francis is here to stay. Maybe Shandon, Mobley, Rogers, Thomas, and maybe even Drew, Bullard, Pig, and Williams will all continue to play stronger as they play together. Maybe the Rockets won't feel forced to make wholesale changes in the off season. Maybe then these guys can gel. And if they suck next year, MAYBE you can blame it on coaching--but then again, maybe not. In the past few weeks, I've been witnessing role players overachieve again. Must be that delicious Houston water' 'cuz it sure can't be Rudy's coaching.

Seriously though, if you really think you can take a completely brand new team with considerable changes in the starting lineup (which is what we had this year, and the year before, and so on...), and snap your fingers and turn them into a championship caliber team in a few short days, or even weeks, well.....Dreamshake, I just wish you'd start snappin...'cuz I'd love to see it.

 

Dreamshake, I'll give you this, your willing to at least stand up and say, "Hey I'm one of those guys". To talk about the "last three years" is an attempt to frame Rudy in the shadow of tribulation and injury. Do you think Scottie Pippen showed the appropriate attitude to be winner last year ? Do you think his spineless act sabatoged Rudy ? I think so. Hakeem has played with injuries the last few years, and apparently is now actually healed. Could this have hurt Rudy's options as a coach ? When I look around the league at other teams, it amazes me HOW MANY PLAYERS WHO ARE ACTIVE,have played for Rudy T. What does this mean ? Clearly, IMO, he can recognize talent at a depth far above normal for coaching staffs, B) Can develop that talent in HIS system to a point where the player is capable of surviving in this league, and C ) ALso recognizes when it's time to make a change without gutting the entire team. What coach has more active players in the NBA then Rudy? This is no coincidence. Give the man his due. I would place him above all except two active coaches' in this league, Riley and Jackson. ( I am not totally Rockets blind.) I am just sick of the constant bashing on him while he has had to deal with a crippled hand, so to speak. This team represents his philosophy more then any other group of players he has ever assembled. And yes, HE assembled it. (Mike Dunlevy has inherited his team, as has Jackson.) Rudy isn't pefect, but I still ask the same question, replace him with whom ?
(Still waiting.)

[This message has been edited by jscmedia (edited January 24, 2000).]

 

Don't forget the back door cuts that Cato and Anderson have been making when the ball goes into the low block.

Also, the alley oop to Francis is a called play too.

Look if you don't like Rudy, then fine. He is a good coach and has won 2 more championships then any other Houston coach.

Try taking away 2 Hall of Famers and start over with a new team and see how well you would coach.

Jeez, just let them play and develop, Rudy is doing fine.

DaDakota

[This message has been edited by DaDakota (edited January 24, 2000).]

 

Dreamshake,

Francis is getting doubled outside the 3pt line. If you want to do a pick-n-roll with him, you must set the pick out front. You can throw "true" pick-n-rolls out the window when it comes to Francis. We are using what you'd call "non-true" pick-n-rolls. Usually Rogers is the high post picker...establishing a clear-out on the wing. We are not doing the pick into the lane. Francis shows more of a threat on the wing right now for us to pick him into the lane.

Bullard set the pick out front about 5 times in the first quarter. Sorry, but that is a pick-n-roll. He didn't "flash" out to 3 pt land those 5 times.

 

I know it has much to do w/the abilities of his players, but one should watch Jerry Sloan's Jazz if you want to see a real pick.

One play of Rudy's that I loved: Remember when Drexler used to stay out near the perimiter on the side... Hakeem would set a pick, and Drexler would either take the easy shot, drive, or both of the other players would collapse on Drexler and Hakeem would get an easy dunk. It was beautiful... and worked almost every time. I don't know if this was Rudy's idea or Drexler's, but I'd like to see more of this now that we have another true ball handler who's a credible threat to penetrate.

BTW, does anyone else think that Drexler was a MUCH better player than Pippen? At the beginning of last season, I posted that elsewhere, and was slapped down

[This message has been edited by haven (edited January 24, 2000).]

 

DreamShake,

I don't see where you're coming from. Geez, seems to me that the Rockets offense is going well enough to have multiple double-figure scorers each night. The bench play seems to be there each night. Turnovers have been down. Are you sure you're watching the Rockets games? Rudy has juggled the lineups smoothly to keep the offense flowing. We are playing good defense (Dream is back, go figure!). Why do you have to be such a hater? If you weren't on this bandwagon when we 2-10, or losing to the Jazz, Sonics, Bullets, then why come aboard now and start whining? Chemsitry is developing beautifully on this team. The bench has been integrated well with the starters. The offense is as diverse as I can remember. Its hard to tell which Rocket will get the ball each possession because we have so many different options who know how to play off of each other. Are you absolutely certain you've been watching the Rockets? Houston Rockets? Did you know that some of the home games are on WB39, in case you might have missed those? Just checking.



[This message has been edited by Primetime (edited January 24, 2000).]

 

I'm glad that somebody alluded to the Jazz in this post, because one of the biggest reasons that the Rockets have suffered against the big teams in the last 3 years (hmmm, how about the two years when they were champions?)is personnel-turnover.

It really goes back to the Barkley trade where the Rox lost their last good quality point guard in Cassell. Every year since that time has seen a huge turnover in player personnel. Just like this year, it takes time to improve on ball movement and team defense.

And the Jazz? It takes years to get the consistency of execution on both offense and defense that they've achieved.

One last note, I believe that the loss of Cassell hurt the Rockets the most in the last several years. You need someone in the perimeter who has the confidence of the team to make a big play when needed. You tell me what the guards of the last several years were good for beyond jacking up the 3, and see if letting Dream and Barkley work it hard dowlow was the better option.

 

Dreamshake, in no way am I offended. In fact, I really do mean to laud your willingness to stand your ground, as shaky as I may percieve it. Lastly, as to the "complaints" by any player, or grumblings, I would submit that the Rockets, ( outside of the Pippen Fiasco), have been relatively "b****in'" free over all the past few years.
And for Rudy detractors who say he's not in charge, The guys who got shipped out for being a pain in the ass, i.e., Mario, Hamilton, Maxwell, Pippen, (others ?), tell the real story. This is and has been Rudys team. Thank god the inmates don't run the building.