here we go! im surprised it took 15 posts for someone to mention 24. 24 is a fictional tv show, for those who werent aware. the military has actually asked the producers of 24 to tone it down. brigadier generals have actually stated that the shows promotion of illegal torture is having a damaging effect on the troops, as they are actually taking cues from the fictional tv show. "the average american out there loves the show 24...in my mind that is as close to a national referendum that its ok to use tough tactics against high-level al qaeda operatives as were going to get" - laura ingraham
Your lame hypothetical generalization isn't going to convince anyone with multiple braincells. I think some people just won't understand the effect of torture until it is introduced to the general populace. Let say the police stop playing the good cop bad cop game during interrogation and instead, relies on physical abuse to "extract" information from suspects. No problem there since torture is so effective, right? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/11/AR2005061100381.html Resource exists to be consumed. Laws exist to be followed.
Uhhh someone else brought up the Germans. I was just shooting it down. What are you talking about? OOOHH hahah it was you! Your crap example is full of the HUGE holes I pointed out. Anyone who knows anything about WWII will know that.
Why so sensitive? Can't you back up your own ethnocentric posts? And you're right: learning history is not a waste of brain power.
Just a refresher... It started here... http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=137347 After posting stuff that he clearly intended to be used to claim the war is successful and subsequent rejoinders by Ottomaton and I, he remarks to Otto: So, Otto and I hate GWB so much that we have lost our humanity. A serious charge. I responded: basso began backpedaling and focused on my last point in the way that only he can... My response... note the last paragraph: basso disagreed: I came back with: And it goes on with me asking him to give his views on torture and him avoiding at all costs any serious discussion of the topic. And so, that's how we got here. Short and sweet version: basso accuses me of lacking humanity. I point out that supporting torture shows a lack of humanity. basso claims I don't know what he thinks about torture. Now, the way I look at the world is if you accuse someone of lacking humanity because they disagree with you on a war, you shouldn't be surprised to have the charge thrown back at you because you support state-sponsored torture... and you support the administration lying about state-sponsored torture... and you only do this because the administration is Republican. However, I'd love to be proved wrong... but I won't be. Because, if basso really puts the words down in print, he'll be forced to consider them and that could lead to the realization that he's wrong. And if he's wrong on one thing about this administration, well, he could be wrong on others. And that just wouldn't do. So we avoid the topic. Again, I'd love it of basso proved me wrong. And note: I wouldn't go to this trouble with TJ, but I think basso still thinks about things occasionally and is therefore, worth the effort.
Man I thought this was going to be a debate on The Jacksons 1984 single "Torture" off the Victory album. You guys suck!!!
I love your debate style. If I am against illegal immigration i'm a bigot If I say German generals were against Hitler I am a racist. The best part is you don;t actually have any facts or thought process. Good Job! You've found what we like to call the race card!
basso continues to ignore the challenge. If I were a Bush Republican, I would accuse him of being for torture due to his silence. Since I'm not, I'll simply wait for him to respond. D&D. Attempt Civility! Impeach Bush.
You came up with a funny unproven theory that doesn't even have much to do with the that article, and somehow that theory is good enough to be a conjecture to counter first hand experience from Allied WWII interrogator. And because those guys and I don't share your love to torture, we know nothing about WWII. What? Did you crank the sarcasm level all the way up, or are you just that stupid? There is indeed a huge hole, right in your head.
The problem is that we can't predict every situation and I agree with you such a situation as 24 is pretty far fetched indeed yet there are situations where even murder is justified. What I am saying isn't that murder should be legal because there might be an extreme situation where it is but that it be kept illegal so if such an extreme situation arises it is heard in a court of law. The problem with saying that torture is legal is that opens up a situation where it could be used with impunity. Even giving legal caveats just makes it more murky. If it is illegal then there is still ultimate accountability to the law.
