Going through some stats of Rox players I was wondering: Its pretty much a given to want to deal Williams, or hate him for 1. Not hitting shots 2. Not having D. Now this group includes myself But for some its hate Walt, but if you speak badly of Mobley, Drew, Or Bullard, its unfounded, or there is a slew of excuses. Walt: .424 FG% .340 3PT% .776 FT% Cuttino: .403 FG% .342 3PT% .846 FT% Drew: .386 FG% .415 3PT% .848 FT% Bullard: .408 FG% .440 3PT% .850 FT% Thomas: .413 FG% .290 3PT% .624 FT% Now I have kept my basis for critisizm of these players pretty much the same. They all have really struggled to hit shots. But typically If I speak ill of Cuttino's shooting, or Drews, or Bullards there's always those posters (like a tall metal flag holder ) who claim Im being too harsh on lets say, MOBLEY. None of these players are hitting shots much better than Walt, and none are superior Defenders, just like Walt. So why hag on one, and not the others? Hows this for an amazing stat. The Rox have 9 players currently shooting .450 or less. Ouch.
Maybe cuz Walt is making $4 million per year, was a former lottery pick and was supposed to take over Scottie's posiition as the do-it-all small forward.
Is there any doubt Cuttino's not going to command more than that after this season??? Am I the only one who didn't think Walt was going to "Turn it on" once with the Rox? He's right at his lifetime marks for shooting. His D has always been horrible. What did you expect. As for where he was picked, what difference does that really make now?
Dreamshake, No foul intended, but I ROTFL about Walt being mentioned as a former lottery pick. Always, Mango [This message has been edited by Mango (edited January 28, 2000).]
Now I have kept my basis for critisizm of these players pretty much the same. I'm sorry to disagree but Mobley can play defense unlike Walt.
Im sorry, but as much as I see Mobley... I see alot. And I mean alot of him drifting towards the lane freeing up his man on the wing. Just to have him run out at the last second way too late. And his rotation is bad. Just like DaDakota noted about him last night.
Maybe he is helping out on Drew's man whenever he gets burned. Just becuase his man scores does not mean he can't play defense. I would take Mobley any day on defense over walt, bullard, or drew. Mobley's such a bad defender that he's second on the team in steals. How did he do that? [This message has been edited by rocketsfan34 (edited January 28, 2000).]
Steals arent a good indication of direct one on one defensive ability. Case in Point: John Stockton has more steals than anyone in the history of the game. Put him one on one on that baseline with Steve Francis, and 10/10, Franchise blows right by his ass. Most steals arent direct "rips", rather playing the passing lanes. A guy like Mario Elie never got steals, but always shut his guy down.
Cabbage: Case: Well its Steve Francis. Put Drew there and 10/10 Stockton will get the steal. Well then how do you tell if someone is good defender or not? A guard is usually by the steals they get. For froncourt guys its usually blocks. Mobley's a good defender then if he knows how to play the passing lane. You don't get 55 steals, twice of Walts by being a bad defender. At worst he's a good defender who knows how to make you pick up your dribble then guard the passing lane. Dreamshake, I have to disagree on Mobley is a liability on defense. Walt, Drew(at least he tries), and Bullard are. Mobley can at least hold his ground, Walt cannot. [This message has been edited by rocketsfan34 (edited January 28, 2000).]
Cat's biggest problem seems to be his love for dribbling the ball. He just sits there facing his man, dribbling off 10-15 seconds from the clock, and then makes his move. Now, that's all fine and dandy if you're a reliable, consistent finisher on the offense, but we all know his record on scoring... That said, he does score, even if he has to take more shots to do it. But that senseless dribbling only takes away from everyone else's offense, and that's not good when the whole team is shooting as poorly as Cat. That's one of those rookie mistakes that he apparently hasn't fixed (I know Rudy has to bitc* at him for it). Even so, Cat is undoubtedly more valuable than Drew, Bullard, and Williams: 1. He is a higher scorer than Walt, and a better defender, 2. He is a higher scorer than Matt, and a better defender, 3. He is a higher scorer than Bryce, and a better defender. Throw in his usual assist, steal, and rebound averages, and he blows these other three ONE-DIMENSIONAL players away. Personally, I'd make Cat a part of the franchise as we've made Steve... A dynamic duo sorta thing. Walt and Bryce are trade fodder if a good PF or SF come along, as far as I'm concerned. Matt will be joining Calvin and Bill pretty soon...
Cuttino only scores more because he jacks up more shots than everyone short of Iverson. Williams would score more if he shot as much. So are you saying that youd be as happy with Williams if he started shooting those 20 footers? I think that Bryce is a better rebounder per minute and maybe passer. Not sure though
Cuttino, to me I used to think he was a ball hog, but after tonight getting 6 assists I have thought otherwise! Cuttino was my first excuse when the Rockets didn't win. He would always go one-on-one with his opponent. But tonight was different he got some other players involved and me off his back!! ------------------ -Junkyard Dog "Maybe we need an enema" - Othella Harrington
Dreamshake: True, and I'd like to see his shooting % go up. But what I gauge them by is minutes/shots/hits... Throw in the minutes factor, and you'll get a more accurate picture of the player's value. In those terms Cat makes better use of his minutes, all around, than everyone except for Steve. You can give Drew and Walt more minutes, and their production will go up statistically, but on a per-minute basis I think you'll find that they're way behind Cat - especially in assists, steals, and fast break pts. Not to mention the unquantifiable "defensive presence"...
One thing about Mobley, he never saw a shot he didn't like. ------------------ The key for the Rockets is a winning attitude and mentality which can only be had by winning basketball games.
Good eye JYD. The neverending Mobley ISOs started tailing off after the Dallas game. His assists are up. Man, where do you guys find those doghouses big enough to fit 5 players in it. With that type of scrutiny, I'm sure there are few teams in this league you wouldn't have at least 3 players to gripe about. Can't you find any positives, like: Bullard is 3rd in the league in 3pt% which makes him an excellent pick-n-roll tandem with Stevie for wing clear-outs. Mobley can create on his own and is 85% FT shooter who knows how to get to the line, which is excellent from the bench when Stevie is taking a breather and Rudy needs some simple play calling for a 5-min stretch. Thomas has shown the ability to score in the block earlier than Othella did (OH was clumsy 1st year, with no baby hook yet). Thomas is a tenacious rebounder. Bullard looks to me to know this new motion offense better than any other player, his timing is excellent on both setting and getting picks...intangibles that often go unnoticed. OK...is that too positive! If you bash those five comments, you should consider taking a happy pill, or studying other teams and counting your blessings. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited January 29, 2000).]
Let me throw out a new stat. P/FGA The point per field attempt is a way to incorporate FT%, 3pt%, and FG% into one stat that tells how much bang for the buck. 3pt shots become valued higher than in FG%. People that force the action and get to the line are valued higher than high percentage people that only shot techs. Francis ranks a 1.25 Walt ranks at 1.12 Mobley is 1.20 Bull 1.13 Drew 1.05 Thomas 1.04 From this, Mobley is closer to Francis than he is to Walt. Bullard barely eexceeded walt while Drew and Thomas failed. I really expected Bullard to be much better than Walt. Are Bullard and Drew as worthless as Walt? No, they may not be the scorers of Mobley or Francis, but they give 3pt threat which Walt isn't. Walt proved he isn't a scorer under P/FGA. He also isn't a defensive stopper. Doesn't throw out assists. Is a turnover waiting to happen. Thomas is a rookie. If you look at his stats at ten game intervals, you will notice he is improving. Since 1-13-2000, he has been at 1.34. That is a lot higher than Francis and Walt. Malone, Zo, Shaq, Duncan, and Webber score 1.4, 1.39, 1.37, 1.37, and 1.22. btw, Brand has scored 1.20 for the season. Before just ragging on this stat, find bad scorers that do well on this system and good scorers that are under rated. The main weakness of this stat is it odesn't take into acount playing time, but if you look closely, the players with high P/FGA start.
yeah dreamshake...i know. i should have acknowledged that. Your point well taken. You are referring mainly to Walt. It inadvertantly became a doghouse thread.
Joe Joe, I like that stat. It is the first one I've seen that gets FTs in there. Not surprising that Mobley stands out. I recall a stat people used to compare Bird to Magic that incorporated assists and turnovers...it was a means to give Magic a fair comparison since he normally scored 10pts less than Bird. Does anyone recall that stat?
heypartner...Actually this thread wan't intended to bash 4 players. Quite the opposite. Whats being said is how can some of us find it so easy to fault one Rox player for the same things that 4 other players are giving the same or worse performances.
