Mobley's value? He is the 2nd best SG in 1998 Draft

Well I still think the whole double teaming thing means nothing. Defenses just double team the primary ball handler on the Rocks. That's because we have no one else that can consistently score. I don't think Mobley is getting doubled because he's that good. he's good but the talent level on this team forces opposing defenses to have to primary goals: Get the ball out of the hands of Francis and Mobley and force others to make plays which doesn't happen too often. It's different than doubling a Larry Hughes who is on a team with several scoring threats including a low post scorer which always helps. And let's not start calling Francis one of the top scorers in the league just yet cuz he's not.

 

Dickerson and Hughes are much better players than Mobley, I like Mobley and he is a good player but those two players are muche better than him overall. However we have Mobes and they have those players so I am content with Mobes.

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"We need to fockass".....Dream back in the day

 

There are certain stats that you cannot overlook or pretend don't exist. And Shooting 38% while taking a ton of shots is one of them. It's simply not acceptable to be playing in the NBA and hitting 38% of your shots. If he can't get above 40% then I'm not even sure he belongs on the team let alone in the starting line-up. There is very little that can be said in his defense. He needs to pick it up or park it on the pine. He's playing like Mark Macon right now. There is no other way to look at it.

 

I would take Hughes over Mobley but I would think twice about MD. Its hard to explain, but Mobley appears to have much better offensive and defensive instincts than MD, not to mention a lot more fire and confidence. I can't tell you how often I have sat there waiting for MD (college and pros, especially in post-season games) to force some action and make some plays only to see him wait-wait-wait (on both ends, which is kind of a disturbing trait to me). Also, I believe MD and Mobley's stats would be much closer if they were in similar situations (MD gets cleaner looks because of Rahem & Bibby). If you look last year (around great low-post players running the team) their %'s were much closer, especially when Mobley was playing the 2--not having to create. As for the low shooting, Iversons was pretty bad the first few years and Starks has been the last couple of years, but I think you are wrong in solely judging their offensive efficiency based on shooting %, you have to consider the kinds of situations that dictate shot selection.

Overall I think the trade with Vancouver was the right one, maybe for both teams. I would rather have a trio of Francis, Mobely and Anderson than Francis, Dickerson and Anderson. On the other hand MD appears to be flourishing around other players who break down the defenses. If MD had to create, I think he would be much less effective than Mobley is at it.

Finally, though, just my opinion but Hughes has the highest ceiling in terms of instincts and athleticism. Not saying he is the best of the 3 right now, but as someone pointed our his age difference, I would take him over CM or MD.

 

I think if Rudy was intent on trading away Mobley, it would have happened during the Vancouver deal. Since Rudy picked Dickerson over Mobley at that time (since I hear Mobley was off the table, period), I seriously doubt the assertion that Rudy's giving Mobley big minutes to increase his trade value.

Rudy's using this down time to get the players he intends on sticking with long term experience in crunch time. Sure, most of these games are garbage, but the 4th quarter is what counts. Mobley's been Mr. 4th quarter this season. Let him take his swings right now...these games don't matter in a season that was even before Charles got hurt. When this team becomes a playoff contender, Rudy will have at least one go-to guy for the big plays.

 

Cat has balls. He doesn't fear contact. He is never afraid to take the shot. There is something to be said about that. That is why Rudy likes him. That is why he will stick around in this league. Everyone is upset about the ISO plays. I was at the Sacramento game when it seemed that Rudy ran it like every possession in the 4th quarter and that is when it became obvious to me that, like it or not, this is the guy Rudy sees as a major piece of the future of this team. I've seen rapid improvement in him at the same pace as Francis and Carlos. Dickerson is way too passive. (See Robert Horry) Shows up some nights and off others. As far as Hughes is concerned, well, obviously the jury is out on that one. I think, sooner rather than later, (probably next season) we are going to reap the benefits of having such a young backcourt having been thrown in the fire together. I'm done rambling now!

 

Horry never averaged 16.1 ppg. If Dickerson is passive and still gets 16.1 ppg with a .439 FG%, I'll take that passiveness anyday. Mobley's production right now is only marginally better than Hughes. So it's not an extreme case of sooner rather than later. And if the Rockets aren't ready to contend now, you rather have the better long term prospect for later when you are ready to contend.

 

Good post and good to holler at you Heypartner,
I've been gearing up for baseball season,so i've been busy,but I see Rudy starting to reign in Mobes a bit and i think that is exactly what he needs.He DOES still have big trade value and that power foward still sounds good,but he has so much potential...Damn,he can take anybody off the dribble and when you look at where we got this guy,it blows me away.I'd like to keep him but for now we have to just let them play and if a good deal comes along think hard about it.I'm not going to micro manage anymore and just take the positives.Who knows,we might come back for the 8th seed...good to be back,HH

 

Ladies and Gentleman, I have to step in on this one. This motivated me to get registered for this BBS stuff. Let me start by saying that Cuttino Mobley was a STEAL in the 2nd round. Not sure why he lasted that long, but I do know that the Rocks had their eyes on him and there was no doubt about the pick. Cat has paid dividends for the Rockets and commanded respect from NBA players league wide. He has also made some bone head decisions and taken some ill-advised shots down the stretch of close games. One may even say he has blown some games for the Rockets (see 1998 playoffs, first round, Lakers, had his shot slapped by Shaq in the final secs.) BUT, we are all missing the point....CAT WANTS THE BALL IN HIS HANDS AT CRUNCH TIME. Mobley has the confidence to take the game in his hands. He has a strong desire to win, so strong that he is willing be the scapegoat if he misses that last second shot at the buzzer. Man, Cuttino is for real! I have read a lot of argments who is the best and 2nd best shooting guard in the draft of 1998. It is WAY too early to tell that. But if you measure skills as they are now....I pick Cat over most. Hell, I pick Cat over a lot of the starting SG's in the league now. Dickerson? I hated to see him go. Dickerson has game. But I don't see the killer instinct Mobley possesses. Hughes? talented and athletic, but far away from being a solid, consistent performer that can lead his team. Bonzi? Hard to tell on such a stacked team. But his jump shot is out of order. Good ability to score off the dribble and create open shots.

Mobley? Well, he has a deadly shot, can pull up off the dribble (at full speed mind you, and he is fast) or spot up and hit the open "J." He can penetrate, he has better than average ball handling skills, and he is very athletic. Not to mention his passing skills are solid (when he does use them). It is hard to argue against heypartners' argument here. You can throw out shooting % and all those "stats," but these guys are guards. SHOOTING GUARDS are supposed to do just that....SHOOT! Mobley takes shots, some harder than they have to be, but he will get smarter, better, and more accurate. SCARY HUH???

Peace,

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HOOP-T

 

Mobley versus MD really is a stand still in terms of performance. Here is an update based on 48 MPG.

---Fg% Ft% 3% Rb Ast Ppg Blk STl TO A/TO
MD .43 .83 .39 4.0 2.9 20.8 .48 1.61 2.1 1.74
CM .40 .84 .34 4.5 4.1 21.3 .48 2.05 3.5 1.81

First, some corrections. MD is not a better rebounder than Mobley, if anything it is (slightly) the other way. Also, as I suggested, the shooting %’s are starting to close over time.

Overall, I stand by my position that a combination of Stevie, Anderson and CM is a more formidable than a back court than Stevie, Anderson and MD. I think CM's versatility is quite an asset. However, for Vancouver, a more pure SG like MD seems to fit the bill around their fine young pure PG and SF, perhaps better than a tweener like CM would. Finally I like the intangibles more for CM, I’d rather take mistakes in young players being over aggressive rather have guys not making plays due to under aggression. In sum, given our current team, I just don’t think we miss MD that much (some, maybe yes, but not that much).

As far as CM being the #2 SG last year. It certainly isn't clear cut that he is or is not. Hughes might be the only one I would take for him (I wouldn't take MD back for him), and I would have to think on that some. Hughes is quite younger and combines athleticism (quickness, strength, body control and speed) that CM or MD just don't have in one package.

[This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited January 26, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited January 26, 2000).]

 

Heypartner, actually, I can give you some insight on how long the Rocks were looking at Cat. I have a longtime friend that lives in Houston, and his mother is very close friends with Carroll Dawson. Anyway, they had been watching Cat and looking at him for some time before the draft. They scouted him his junior and senior years and also looked at Tyson Wheeler, Mobely's backcourt mate at RIU. They did not think they would get him in the 2nd round, but were elated when he was still there when it was their pick. Hey, don't forget, Cat was a 2nd team all rookie. I think he should have been on the first team....how the hell did Matt Harpring get on the first team????? Anyway, my hope is that the Rocks stay together and get a couple of good free agent big men soon.

Peace,

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HOOP-T

 

It is important to consider total contributions beyond the 48 minute averages.
For instance, Bill Wennington is averaging a Wilt figure of 72 points and 48 rebounds per game using this adjustment. Of course that reflects adjustment of scoring 6 points and taking 4 boards in 4 minutes work in 1 game.

However both CM and MD have played heavy minutes for 41 games, thus I think the 48 MPG adjustment is the most fair indicator to compare performance. There are some minutes per game difference, 31 (CM) to 37 (MD). But I wouldn't say it is that much when you consider Mobley is fighting with Stevie and SA for minutes and Vancouver's back-up guards stink. Also, both guys are second on their teams in MPG, CM barely ahead of SA and MD barely ahead of Bibby. The Rockets obviously have much better depth than Vancouver.


[This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited January 27, 2000).]