If the Rockets are playing alot with Steve and Mike James in the backcourt together could coach a consider moving T-Mac to the three, because Steve is just as good or better rebounder then Battier. Not counting last season, who is the better rebounder Steve or Shane. Sucks I'm talking about a point guard equal to a small/power forward.
Considering the minutes battier plays, he could in fact be one of the worst rebounders in the league at his position. Last season, he wasa big 3, while playing the 4 at times but couldn't muster 5 rebounds in 40+ minutes. That's horrible. Steve can grab grab 5-6 rebounds in 40 minutes easily, and he's a PG.
On the bright side, we could one of the strongest rebounding teams in the league on the floor at a time: Yao Hayes Bonzi T-Mac Francis
1 Francis by a fair distance. 2 bonzi is the best rebounder out of our wing players. 3 james and francis arent gonna play much together. i assume Mike James will probaly start in the backcourt and francis will be playing behind tracy as the backup 2 majority of the time. i see rafer, Francis and wells togther off the bench.
what about Bruce Bowen. He has never gotten more than 4 rpg. Point is, these perimeter defenders who draw the hardest assignment on defense are often not in position to rebound, especially the ones who are mainly perimeter shooters on offense as well. Batter is a better rebounder. But go ahead, "prove" me wrong with stats.
Battier is good with fundamentals, he may not get the rebound, but he always will block out his man from getting the rebound.
Unfortunately that is all we got Examples of Positioning, determination and will . . . gathering those for each could get lengthy I cannot comment on positioning and technique Determination and will. . . . I have to give more credit to SF Rocket River
Judging Shane's rebounding ability just on last year is somewhat unfair. Remember, on offense he was primarily a spot up shooter from the corners, which significantly impacted his offensive rebounding which had been a strength of his. Throughout his career, he had grabbed around 2.3 offensive boards per 40 minutes. Last year, it plummeted to 0.8. His defensive rebounding, per minute, wasn't much different than in past years. He averaged 3.6 defensive boards per 40 minutes, and the average for all SG/SF last season (the positions he was primarily defending) was 4.3. But remember that last year he had a ton of responsibilities as a team defender, so if wasn't crashing the boards every possession I think we can forgive him. Also, we happened to lead the league in defensive rebounding as a team, and when Battier was on the floor we grabbed a very healthy 74% of the rebounds on that end. Next year, with more of a movement, cutting offense you should expect Battier's offensive rebounds to go up. I also think we'll play small a lot more often, because both Francis and James can play SG, which means Battier will get more time at PF, like in previous years.
I think a more accurate representation will be the which of the two holds his opponent to a lower percentage of rebounds gathered while he's on the court. That stat is a better representation of rebounding as a whole that helps the team rather than just pure rebound stats. Reason being rebounding is more than jumping up and snagging that carom, it's about positioning and sealing off your man so he can't get that rebound too. In that sense, I think Battier might just be the better "rebounder". Course, if you just want to talk about pure rebounding, then I guess it's Francis by a hair, reason being Battier is almost always glued to his guy on the perimeter. Shot goes up, he turns and seals his man off for the rebound. Any rebound that he can't get, he tips it to a teammate. That effectively puts him at a disadvantage in terms of padding his rebounding numbers already.
This question is a moot point! While playing for the rockets Steve Francis received abundant praise for the fact that he was a great rebounding Point Guard- but not from me! I saw a player who's job description was to get the ball up the court as efficientlly and as quickly as possible, without a turnover. Instead Steve would stay near the basket and position himself for rebounds, this not only made the big men lazy but caused a loss of time when the ball should have been on its way down the court, this delay was continued as Steve was also the king of dribblemania. Hopefully,if Steve is to play starting Point Guard and has the responsibility of gettimg the ball down quickly under Coach A then he needs not to be thinking about rebounding !! The question answer is that Steve will be great under coach A but not as good a rebounder as Battier. To the second part, McGrady is a vastly superior Small Forward than Battier and should be the starter at this position! Battier who is a defensive specialist will play with both the starters and reserves as Coach A sees the need.
On the flip side, when using Yao in the high post, we will have an inverted offense with our smaller players cutting around the basket...in prime rebounding position. Furthermore, putting another point along side Steve gives us another person to initiate the offense when Steve is helping out on the defensive glass.
I rather not to have Steve on the rebounding contest, just for the reason that his knees are not fully recover.
As it has been stated, Battier's role on the Rockets was not condusive to him getting rebounds. On offense, he was rarely near the basket, but instead out by the three point line which limits his offensive rebounding opportunities. On defense, even though he is a SF, Battier always guarded the other teams best perimeter player. More importantly he almost always contested their shots. That meant he typically was headed away from the basket trying to chase down the shooter. Again, more difficult to collect rebounds. Comparing Battier to Francis as rebounders is unfair. Francis often has size on the player guarding him, but Battier does not not to mention what I said above. Circumstances are also as important as stats when asking this type of question. If Battier guards Kobe and gives up 25, and Francis guards Jordan Farmar and gives up 15 points, does that make Francis a better defender then Battier? Im not saying Battier is a great rebounder. But if he was asked to only focus on rebounds and not staying close to Kobe, Dwade, Ray Allen, Ben Gordon and others like them, Im sure he could average over 5 boards.
exactly, when u have the responsbility of battier, do u think about rebounds? can u rebound after u contest a shot? can u rebound when ur on the floor after a block? francis usually stays in the middle of the floor b/c PGs are usually there so he can get rebounds easier. tmac can def. rebound better though. he used to avg 8 in his first few yrs in orlando.
1. I agree with you 2. Yes, Bonzi is a beast on the boards... 3. Your assumption is inaccurate... Francis WILL start alongside T-Mac, and Battier will be coming off the bench... behind T-Mac... The lineup will look like this come opening night: C - Yao Ming PF - Luis Scola SF - Tracy McGrady SG - Steve Francis PG - Rafer Alston Mike James, Shane Battier, and Bonzi Wells coming off the bench!
you're out of your mind. no way in hell will fracis play together w/ tracy AND yao. he's going to be part of he 2nd unit w/ bonzi. it's gonna be C - Yao PF - scola SF - battier SG - tracy PG - alston (for now, i think james will replace him)
rebounding is not the only consideration for who will start, Battier is far better defender and team player than Steve, so i think Battier will start.
I think questions about Battier's rebounding are fair, and I think your explanation illustrates why stats don't always tell the whole story. Historically, Francis has always been an excellent rebounder for a guard. He's also been in the league 3 more seasons than Battier, which surprised me when I looked it up. Battier's 6 seasons, during which he played nearly every game (a very durable player, to say the least), he averaged 4.7 rebounds per game, averaging 33 minutes per game. Francis, during his first 6 seasons (I'm just doing this for fun!), averaged just over 6 RPG, playing an average of 75.33 games per season, versus about 80 games for Battier. Not a big difference, Francis having played nearly every game his first 6 years, except for 01-02 with Houston, when he played 57 due to injury. Francis averaged about 39.5 MPG versus 33 MPG for Battier, comparing their first 6 seasons. So you get 4.7 RPG for Battier in 33 MPG, versus 6 RPG in 39 minutes for Francis during those first 6 years. The last 3 seasons show a decline for Francis, especially after he went from Orlando to New York. Those 2 seasons in New York really hurt his averages across the board, except for this past season with the Knicks shooting from Downtown, when Steve was outstanding, given the chance. (and I'm not comparing shooting % between the two... Francis also averaged over 6 assists per game, easily, during his career, except for those 2 seasons with the Knicks. That, and looking at his turnovers, will buy you a cup of java) Just some interesting stuff. Two different positions, and two quite different players. Francis only declined a lot during those 2 seasons with the Knicks. Injuries, or lack of opportunity? Maybe someone can tell me.
