You can have your own spin and your own opinion. I don't think I can convince you or you can convince me. But the fact is that our laws agree that intention to kill is sentenced to much shorter time than actually commit the killing .
Not true. Intention to commit a terrorist act can land you life in prision, but actually killing someone may result in much less time (manslaughter).
At least we are now clear eveyone from Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis to the Confederate foot soliders were terrorists. Now I do agree there is a difference here, because otherwise we would look as bad as anyone in recent history, practically relentless direct military or indirect (funding, arming, training insurgents—and how can we forget we trained Osama to do his thing) efforts to carve up or restructure states from Latina America to the Middle East to Asia post WW2. I have not heard the Iranian fellow call for a genocide in Isreal, more like State reconstruction. Not that I am sure I would agree with even a smidgen of his likely aims. We can certainly call him out on human rights within his own country (not that we couldn’t do much better), but on his foreign policy, seems to me we are being hypocritical.
I'll quote FB with a straight face. Iraq was a sovereign nation under Saddam. It may have been a sovereign nation under a brutal dictator, but still a sovereign nation. What fantasy world are you inhabiting today, basso? D&D. Impeach Bush and Bush Loving Hypocrisy.
Why are you comparing apples (intention to commit terrorism) to oranges (manslaughter)? Don't you think comparing intention to murder with murder is more apt???? Did you go Karl Rove's spinning school?
Yes, I feel the leader of Iran supports terrorism... True, all that jazz, but the key differance is Ahmadinejad has called for Israel to be wiped off the map,...I can't think of any other leader sans a terroristic leader which has openly declared this... In addition, you have the IRG, with a lot of damning evidence pointing to its' self as contributing to terroristic deeds against the U.S., and killing U.S. soldiers...You have hezbollah, bona fide...and who presides over this? That's right, the Ahole from Iran (as free beer and hotwings like to say).... I think I have offered the distinction on this... Obviously, now tell jo momma to give you a cookie... I applaud New Yorker for independent thinking, and I think as you have stated that there has to be something more than vague rumor and innuendo some folks cling to, but for those who choose to think for ourselves, it is apparent that there is a working distinction on actual terroristic groups, terroristic groups such as the IRG who have contributed to terroristic acts against us in the name of killing U.S. soldiers, and who presides over such terror groups.... That is a distinction unmatched by Saudi Arabia... Does that mean I would go to bed with Saudi and trust the leadership wholeheartedly? NO!...Does that mean in comparison, a clear distinction can be made?....ABSOLUTELY....
Seriously, I never would have suspected you of parsing a comment and posting it out of context in order to make an easy but transparently empty rhetorical point. I know that you aren't this vapid. I guess independent thinking is a euphemism for thinking exactly like you? I don't intend to be rude, but where exactly is New Yorker's 'independent thinking' independent of you? This is not an attack on New Yorker. I have no problem generally with either your positions or his. But the actual opinions aren’t really the issue here. More importantly to me, you continue to dodge my request for simple enumeration and descend into emotional arguments and arguments based on what is 'obvious' and what you feel. Its not your position, it is your refusal to bring facts that you demand as required from others. The thrust of your arguments seem to be Saudi Arabia and Iran are different just because it’s obvious they are different. All you have done is reinforce my initial opinion that your positions are formed in an environment of emotional bias. I'm not interested in who you think is worse or who you feel what about. I am interested in specific details, which is what you initially claimed to be seeking as well. I appreciate that you subjectively feel that Iran is bad. I don't like them much either. For the third time, I ask you to provide me with the formatted information of links regarding Iran that you requested of Saudi Arabia, though I assume you will continue to dodge and ignore. You demanded very specific detailed evidence regarding Saudi Arabia, but when I ask the same of you hem and haw and evade.
Are you still pissed about that? That was like 6 or 7 years ago, right? I seriously felt bad at the time for letting you down. Sorry if it upset you. I ended up giving it to a lesbian about a month after you went to Iran. Lesbians need to surf the internets too. I actually spent a couple of nights doing all the work to get it set up and ready for you but there were like 3 or 4 days in a row where I had to work 12 hour days, and when that ended you had left town. I do remember feeling very bad for letting you down, while at the same feeling that there wasn't too much else I could have done. I don't do computers any more. I have an old gun I could give you to make it up to you, but I get the impression that it wouldn't be something that you would particularly care for. But if it is any consolation I did feel quite bad about disappointing you.
then by your logic, we should have just left Yugoslavia alone, since that was also a sovereign nation. meme chose avec darfur, since sudan is similarly sovereign. nice to see you on the side of genocidal maniacs like Saddam, Milosevic, and the janjaweed. how do you feel about pol pot and the khmer rouge?
You got a lotta nerve To say you are my friend When I was down You just stood there grinning You got a lotta nerve To say you got a helping hand to lend You just want to be on The side that's winning You say I let you down You know it's not like that If you're so hurt Why then don't you show it You say you lost your faith But that's not where it's at You had no faith to lose And you know it I know the reason That you talk behind my back I used to be among the crowd You're in with Do you take me for such a fool To think I'd make contact With the one who tries to hide What he don't know to begin with You see me on the street You always act surprised You say, "How are you?" "Good luck" But you don't mean it When you know as well as me You'd rather see me paralyzed Why don't you just come out once And scream it No, I do not feel that good When I see the heartbreaks you embrace If I was a master thief Perhaps I'd rob them And now I know you're dissatisfied With your position and your place Don't you understand It's not my problem I wish that for just one time You could stand inside my shoes And just for that one moment I could be you Yes, I wish that for just one time You could stand inside my shoes You'd know what a drag it is To see you D&D. Impeach Bush and Bush Loving Hypocrisy.
All you have done is talk nonsense as you wander in the forest looking for a tree,... Fact: Hezbollah is a terroristic organization within and supported by the government of Iran Fact: IRGC is a terroristic organization within and supported by the government of Iran Fact: cross reference articles with specific evidence and names of consequence have damning evidence of the IRGC's terroristic contribution against U.S. soldiers ( if you wish, I'll slap it in your face as well ) Fact: No other leader of a nation has called for a another country to be wiped off the map... Fact: Such talk of wiping another said country off map (i.e. annihilation) is in keeping with enumeration/speak of recognized terrorists Fact: Ahmadinejad presides over the aforementioned terror groups and their actions... I appreciate your attempt at unsubjective enumeration, but in the process you lose sight of FACTS which clarify the distinction... I demand distinction and facts....I have provided that. How bout you?
Some of your claims are incorrect as stated... Fact: Hezbollah is a militant organization within and supported by the government of Iran Fact: IRGC is a military organization within and supported by the government of Iran Fact: cross reference articles with speculative evidence and names of consequence have lacking evidence of the IRGC's terroristic contribution against U.S. soldiers ( ) Fact: Persian lacks the language that calls for a another country to be wiped off the map... Fact: Ahmadinejad presides over government in Iran, but does not represent the highest living authority...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Revolutionary_Guards_Corps RIF...
I don't mean to be a prig, but it is you who began by demanding facts and enumeration. I am trying to work with you, but I really think it is not unreasonable to expect that I should be able to hold you to the same standards that you are holding me. If you would like to completely do away with a discussion of details, that is fine with me. We can agree on the basis of subjective and circumstantial evidence that grand high muckety-mucks in both Saudi Arabia and Iran support terrorism on some level. You were the one who began demanding unsubjective proof with sources and references. See that wasn't so hard, was it? I can tell you are angry, and I apologize for causing this but it seems to have been the only thing which has enabled us to make some headway. Unfortunately, you still didn't provide the support documents which you demanded of me. Remember, you are the one who demanded that we operate with extensive documentation. If we were really interested in a level playing field here, I would abstain from providing documentation of my facts as well. But since it seems to have been so frustrating for you to get this far, I'm willing to allow you to play the course with a handicap. I will provide links to my evidence, without demanding the same of you. But, I take issue with the accuracy of 'the facts' in a number of your points. For these I again will provide supporting documents. I think it is reasonable that if I do provide these documents, that you won't dismiss them out of hand without providing some sort of documentation on your end. Hopefully this is OK with you. I am trying to work with you on this. [rquoter] (OK, it is late. I am tired. I have a bunch more stuff written out but I am going to need time to organize with a clear head. I will provide the first point to start this rolling, but most of the substance will be posted as an addendum tomorrow.) Saudi Support for Terrorism: Fact: Saudi Arabia provides the main body of financial support to Hamas, a designated terrorist organization roughly analogous to Iran's Hezbollah. Hamas routinely continues to demand a Palestinian state 'from the river to the see' a euphemism for a state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.* They also continue to reject the existence of Israel. In practical terms this amounts to a much more explicit and direct policy towards the destruction of Israel than the oft-repeated mistranslated statement of Ahmadinejad. [/rquoter] Again, I don't mean to be anal, but when I provide documentation which indicates otherwise, I will expect that you either provide documentation of your own, or concede your misstatements. If I provide you proof and you just stick your fingers in your ears, I am going to be very upset. If this set of conditions is too much for you, let me know and we can just disagree and move on.
Of course it wasn't so hard when facts were inherent in my reasoning of the distinction of Iran and Saudi...When you are lost in the forest, you can't see the tree unless someone points it out to you...I guess that is how you work... I also asked a poster to support an absolute statement with an article which supports his claim based on A. cross reference support B. specific evidence C. names of consequence It's not that difficult sans "extensive" documentation...I have an article which ties the IRGC to contributions of terror against us in Iraq which demonstrates ABC,...with the fact that the Iranian President presides over such group combined with the actions of the terroristic group against us,...I'd say again that is a distinction unmatched by Saudi. I am trying to help you see the trees even if you refuse,....
I've been sick as a dog all day and didn't get out of bed until about an hour ago (I had a very interesting dream about hiding on top of the Summit from rampaging wild animals, but I digress...). So I got up and despite my sickly state, coughing up fluorescent balls of phlegm, I sit down and read this, which seems to indicate that I could provide you with 1000 documented pages of damning acts and you would continue to say that you know better. From time to time I am a bit of a masochist, but I frankly don't look forward to doing a whole bunch of work, which is what you asked, only to have is summarily ignored by you because you think you already know the answer. If you wish to have a legitimate open minded discussion, please let me know and I will put forth the effort you asked me to put forth despite my sickness. If you want to continue to be a self important preacher of the truth, then I will just refrain from continuing. I have no desire to waste several hours of my day just to act as a unthinking counterpoint to your smug, self-assured messianic vision of truth. The fact that you demand evidence, and I put forth a signficiant effort to satisfy you, and before I even have a chance to respond you babble on about how right you are and how 'you're learnin me good' is quite frankly galling and offputting. If you want a 'straight man' for your little comedy act, go find someone who is willing to work that job for free. At this point it seems to me that you have abused my trust.
