vspan: NBA nearly destroyed me, but I no longer hate Van Gundy's lies

HeyP,

That was danged funny.

 

remind me never again to mention a theoretical bbs Bing Bang.

 

Donkey jock straps, did anybody here besides spanoulis fans know that they are the number three export of the Attic Plain? Yes, many a factory is devoted to the production of burro athletic supporters. THey are number three behind olive oil and hideously bad point guards who have more estrogen than the Lifetime movie network.

 

I would just like to say that I do not find Sam Fisher amusing at all. There really is absolutely not place at all for his constant put downs and insults of so many people here. He is absolutely out of line.

As to the Spanoulis issue.

I believe he would have been a very good point guard if he was used properly. And no I do not believe he was. That's all I will say because otherwise Sam Fisher and others will be insulting me for weeks.

 

Just when I thought this thread couldn't be any more awesome, Bob Sura comes in with the flying body cross off the top rope to pin Michael Jordan 1-2-3 for the world heavyweight title!

Welcome back, please regale us with more stories and pray that search doesn't get turned back on.

 

You have no chances with me welcome to ignore.

CLICK

 

Just quoting for Rockets Dynasty. I wouldn't want you to miss the funny posts just because of some misguided ignore usage.

 

But seriously, could a truce emerge? I know Sam wants nothing of a truce.

But to the Spanoulis-coulda-been-a-contenda-with-a-good-coach-or-um-maybe-with-different-rules-and-if-he-could-uh-play-defense crowd:

How about we agree to ZERO Spanoulis content in the GARM forum once the Rockets start preseason games? Deal? We move all fantasies and regrets and donkey jock straps to the International forum?

Isn't that fair? Isn't it... merciful?

 

Exactly, Sam Fisher deserves a time out !!!!

Stop the innane insults and the bumping of this thread by HP and him........Who is with me????

CURAHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!

 

Um, no, seriously. Preseason deadline?

 

B-Bob I see your anti-quark and raise you a down quark or a 'duark'.



I am saving my charmed quark for New Years Eve.

 

Ah yes,it's all good in the grand scheme of things.

We lose some of our window in the shortterm,but open it wider and extend it.
We get rid of Spanoulis and find excellent return in Scola and Butler while best of all JVG deep sixes himself.

With Adelman comes a healthy and motivated Bonzi who is playing for a contract and a title.

But last but not least we get Aaron Brooks too out of this.He's the real deal and should be one helluva PG for quite awhile and also ironically enough with the addition of Adelman Steve comes home cheap to play more 2 (good move) than 1.


Don't forget the guy that should log the most minutes initially at the 1.Mike James *****.
Who cares about the potential powder keg at the 1.Adelman can handle these guys....He's the right coach for this team for so many reasons besides just being an upper tier guy.

Life is like a large mosaic where we aren't supposed to see or understand all of it at once....or even a river where swimming with the current (and sometimes hitting some of those tributaries in the process) brings you plenty of clarity and good karma.......where one already knows which way to go when those forks appear.

Conversely when vain attempts at condescension are slung around like hypocritical arrows of bad karma/ego run amok it assures a trip back to the vortex and finally back again into the now exponentially multiplied black hole from whence one came.....not the enlightened path which we should alll aspire to.




Apparently Morey sees enough though as we are in line for some titles.

 

Just for the sake of the Jeff Van Gundy only fans here.........

There are several different metrics for NBA stats from Europe based on the level of Europe.

Highest is European Championship, then Euroleague, then EuroCup, then ULEB's Cup, then Spanish League, then Greek League, then Italian League, then Russian League, etc.

The basic metric stat for NBA translation of course is the Euroleague one, because it happens every year, but the most important one is the European Championship because it is the highest level of Europe and the one that the teams and players put the most focus and effort on.

Think of it as the NBA playoffs if you will in how the players view it as putting best effort.

For this the metric stat is twice the equal or half the minus value however you look at it as compared to Euroleague. It's considered the most exact and accepted and the most accurate metric Euro to NBA stat.

Now of course this is usually only applied if the player played at least into the elimination round. If the player played the max of 9 games then the stat is considered to be generally pretty flawless, not only due to number of games, but also due to level of competition faced in the later stages.

Now keep in mind the main argument used by Van Gundy and the fans that are against Spanoulis is turn overs and also poor shooting, so this is what I will try to expand on here, since of course many have said he had too small a sample size to be judged on because Van Gundy did not play him.

The other side argues that because he had too small a sample size we don't know how the stats would have looked with more play time, of course the per minute 40 stat they use is too much. Because players wear down at that.

So the correct metric is the per 36 minute stat. Now the Spanoulis defenders have argued he should be compared to Alston more favorably. So I will compare to Alston using last year BUT deflate Alston from 37.1 MPG to 36 for the equal comparison.

Otherwise at the 40 minute projection both Spanoulis and Alston would have inflated stats.

What I am doing is basically the EXACT SAME metric that all NBA scouts and GM's that would be following the EC 2007 would also be doing. So try to keep in mind that THIS is what Spanoulis' scouting result would be.

Spanoulis played the max of 9 games as he played into the medal round.

So here are the stats:

Vassilis Spanoulis

European Championship 2007

9 games

26.1 minutes per game

41.8% FG overall
30.3% 3PT

11.7 points per game
1.8 rebounds per game
2.0 assists per game
1.1 steals per game
0.0 blocks per game

1.9 fouls per game
1.3 turnovers per game

1.5 to 1 assist to turnover ratio


Now here is the stat metric formula for the European Championship Eurobasket, which again is considered generally fairly flawless if the player was into the medal round like Spanoulis was with Greece.

To translate to NBA and this ONLY is valid if the player would get at least 500 minutes of play time in the NBA.

Otherwise the formula is INVALID, and remember Spanoulis only got 272 minutes in the NBA in 2006-2007.

So do NOT confuse how the stat metric works. It can only be compared to actual NBA stats if the said player played at LEAST 500 minutes in the NBA.

Also PLEASE do NOT bash on the turnover stat. Keep in mind Spanoulis played shooting guard for basically the entire time. So this turnover stat is with him as a shooting guard.

HOWEVER also keep in mind that when he was on the floor, almost all the time the ball was in HIS HANDS EXCLUSIVELY.

So BOTH points need to be kept in mind here for purposes of this being looked at extensively. He DID play shooting guard for Greece and he DID when on the court almost always have the ball in HIS hands.

Below is how the ACTUAL NBA scouting formula is written. Yes this is exactly what Morey and Rockets scouts would be using for example.

Field Goal % = minus 6%

(In FIBA European Championship Eurobasket generally historical data shows a 6% difference plus in field goal shooting for players versus the NBA. This is significantly lower than the 12% plus that the Euroleague has historically shown.)
​

3PT % = minus 6%

(In FIBA European Championship Eurobasket generally historical data shows a 6% difference plus in field goal shooting for players versus the NBA. This is significantly lower than the 12% plus that the Euroleague has historically shown.)​

Points Per Game = minus 10%

(In FIBA European Championship Eurobasket generally historical data shows a 10% difference plus in scoring average for players versus the NBA. This is significantly lower than the 20% plus that the Euroleague has historically shown.)​

Rebounds Per Game = plus 1.18%

(in FIBA European Championship Eurobasket rebounds are much harder to come by, historically about a minus 18%, which is the same as the historical difference shown in the Euroleague.)
​

Assists Per Game = plus 1.31%

(in FIBA European Championship Eurobasket the assists are very hard to accumulate due to different rules on what qualifies as an assist, historically about a minus 31%, which is the same as the historical difference shown in the Euroleague.)​

Steals Per Game = Same

(In FIBA European Championship Eurobasket the historical data shows steals translate fairly evenly)​

Blocks Per Game = Same

(In FIBA European Championship Eurobasket the historical data shows steals translate fairly evenly)​

Fouls Per Game = Same

(In FIBA European Championship Eurobasket the historical data shows steals translate fairly evenly)​

Turnovers Per Game = Same

(In FIBA European Championship Eurobasket the historical data shows steals translate fairly evenly)​

OK so:

41.8% FG% - 6% =

39.3% FG%

30.3% 3PT% - 6% =

28.5% 3PT%

11.7 points per game - 10% =

10.5 points per game

1.8 rebounds per game + 18% =

2.1 rebounds per game

2.0 assists per game + 31% =

2.6 assists per game

1.1 steals per game = same =

1.1 steals per game

0.0 blocks per game = same =

0.0 blocks per game


1.9 fouls per game = same =

1.9 fouls per game

1.3 turnovers per game = same =

1.3 turnovers per game

OK so now we have the European Championship NBA metrics stats for Vassilis Spanoulis from Eurobasket 2007:

26.1 Minutes Per Game

39.3% FG%

28.5% 3pt%

10.5 Points Per Game

2.1 Rebounds Per Game

2.6 Assists Per Game

1.3 Turnovers per Game

2.0 to 1 Assist to Turnover Ratio

Now we project these numbers to per 36 minute.

(equal to 3 quarters of NBA play - considered the standard metric for projection IF the player in question averages under 4 fouls in this time, which Spanoulis would average 2.6 in 36 minutes)​

Vassilis Spanoulis Per 36 Minute EC 2007 NBA Metric Stat

36.0 Minutes Per game

39.3% FG%
28.5% 3PT%

14.5 Points Per Game

2.9 Rebounds Per game

3.6 Assists Per Game

1.5 Steals Per Game

1.8 Turnovers Per Game

2.0 to 1 Assist to Turnover Ratio



OK now Rafer Alston:

37.1 Minutes Per Game

37.5% FG%
36.3% 3PT%

13.3 Points Per Game

3.4 Rebounds Per Game

5.4 Assists Per Game

1.6 Steals Per Game

2.1 Turnovers Per Game

2.6 Turnover to Assist Ratio


Now we project Rafer Alston to Per 36 minutes:

36.0 Minutes Per Game

37.5% FG%
36.3% 3Pt%

12.9 Points Per Game

3.3 Rebounds Per Game

5.2 Assists Per Game

1.6 Steals Per Game

2.0 Turnovers Per Game

2.6 to 1 Assist to Turnover Ratio


OK now let's compare them:

Field Goal Percentage:

Vassilis Spanoulis = 39.3%

Rafer Alston = 37.5%

3 Point Percentage:

Vassilis Spanoulis = 28.5%

Rafer Alston = 36.3%

Points Per Game:

Vassilis Spanoulis = 14.5

Rafer Alston = 12.9

Rebounds Per Game:

Vassilis Spanoulis = 2.9

Rafer Alston = 3.3

Assists Per Game:

Vassilis Spanoulis = 3.6

Rafer Alston = 5.2

Steals Per Game:

Vassilis Spanoulis = 1.5

Rafer Alston 1.6

Turnovers Per Game:

Vassilis Spanoulis = 1.8

Rafer Alston = 2.0

Assist to Turnover Ratio:

Vassilis Spanoulis = 2.0 to 1

Rafer Alston = 2.6 to 1

REMEMBER you cannot use Spanoulis' 2006-2007 NBA stats to compare to this because the metric can ONLY be compared to a season in which the player in question played at LEAST 500 minutes.

Also REMEMBER any season in which a player plays under 500 minutes in the NBA the metrics stats are thrown out and not counted, So Sam Fisher's 4th grade quality stat images are basically meaningless.

Now it looks to me from this detailed analysis that Rafer Alston should have gotten about 30 minutes at point guard and Vassilis Spanoulis should have gotten about 18 minutes at point guard and this should have been every game.

John lucas and Luther Head should have never gotten those point guard minutes over Spanoulis and Alston should have not played 37.1 minutes per game.

30/18 at point guard minute distribution between Rafer Alston and Vassilis Spanoulis is what should have been done every game by Jeff Van Gundy.

This would have made the team much stronger and also would have gotten them past the first round of the playoffs.

When we consider that Vassilis Spanoulis is 25 and Rafer Alston 31, then by seeing that they are fairly close to each other in age at 25 and 31, then it should be reasonable to logically deduct that in 3 years time Vassilis Spanoulis at age 28 would be a better player than Rafer Alston has ever been to this point in his career because Rafer Alston is at a prime point of his playing career and Vassilis Spanoulis is still a developing player.

This also shows to me that a vast majority of fans here suffer from one of three main diseases in common with each other.



1. JVG-BRAG

(Jeff Van Gundy Brainwa****is Regurgititis Assholitis Gagitis)
​

2. VS-b****

(Vassilis Spanoulis b****eritis)

3. VSLAP

(Vassilis Spanoulis Lover Alert Paranoia)

 

You wanna know an even more accurate metric to see how someone will perform in the NBA than EC stats, their actual NBA stats. V-SPAN got to play and he sucked huge amounts of ass. The reason he never got to 500 minutes is because he was a detriment to the team nearly every time he was out on the court. Coaches don't like to play players that hurt the team. Nobody needed to look at Thomas Hamilton or Devin Gray for 500 minutes to figure out that they sucked, it was readily apparent. When you are the worst player on the team, you are not going to get a lot of PT. That's life. Now V-SPAN is back where he belongs. It is just too bad that Les had such a hard-on for him that he got rid of JVG.

 

I officially boycott any V-Span thread located in the GARM forum. I don't care what it says or what the topic is. I won't read it.

Seriously. This whole thing has to end at some point.

 

Here's my take on the whole VSpan saga, and it's very simple:

Imagine that you're a European player. Your NBA rights are acquired by a team. That team keeps you in Europe to build up your skills for a couple of years. Eventually you're ready and you sign a contract with them, and are finally going to realize your lifelong dream -- playing in the NBA!

Then you arrive for your first training camp are are utterly astonished to learn the following:

* The coach asks you to play according to an overall scheme he designed years ago and has basically been using ever since.

* The coach is stubborn and unwilling to redesign the offense to better incorporate the skills of his rookie point guard.

* The NBA requires a lot of man-to-man defense, and your coach expects you to play it.

* Your new team is hoping you'll be able to hit a decent percentage of NBA 3-pointers, seeing as how you're a guard and all.

* Your newly widowed mom, who you've brought with you, is not as happy here as she was back home with the people who look, talk and act like her, including her friends and the rest of the family.

* Things you write in your Greek blog end up being read by fans stateside and make their way to the local media.


OK, now call me a fool, but if the Rolling Stones told me two years in advance that they hoped I'd one day take over for Keith Richards (my lifelong dream, for argument's sake), I'm going to spend those two years learning as much as I can about this band. I'm going to know exactly at which point in "Brown Sugar" Mick turns and prances my way. I'm going to know what Ron Wood takes in his tea (besides heroin) and at what time he wants it. By the time those two years are up, I'll know every wrinkle on Mick's ever-more-craggly face, even the ones that haven't yet shown up.

VGina, on the other hand, was surprised by some truly unsurprising things. Did he even bother to look at JVG's career? How much leeway was Charlie Ward given running the Knicks' offense? Was he allowed to create his own shot all time? Was he required to play man defense?

All of this VGina nonsense can be boiled down to one simple truth:


Vasillis Spanoulis was undone by his own arrogance.


This doofus actually thought because he was doing well in Euroball that he could stroll into a strange league in a strange country and play on a level equal to the greatest basketball players on the planet without working at it.

To me, that's mind-boggling. I don't blame JVG for not giving him more minutes. This kid was unprepared for the job from the first day of camp, and he apparently still doesn't see his lack of preparation as being the problem.

Keep VSpan. Give me Yao Ming, who's exponentially more talented than Spanoulis will ever be and was under a massive media spotlight no player has ever had to face, yet still did his homework and knew exactly what he was getting into when he arrived for his first training camp. That's because Yao was smart enough to get that you don't just waltz in and take over the NBA because you've always dreamed of doing so.

So screw VGina. Didn't get enough time to prove himself? This lazy douchebag didn't even deserve the playing time he got! I was never that crazy about JVG, but this is one bloated carcass you can't lay at his feet.

 

And I would be remiss if I didn't give major props to SamFisher and HeyPartner.

Even if SFish did nothing but post insults here the rest of his ClutchFans life, his "Seabiscuit of Spanoulis nutriding" metaphor should give him a lifetime pass from being banned. Between that and HeyP's graph, this thread has almost made up for all the grief wrought by VGina.

 

Great great post.
Frankly, I was a VSpan apologist but after reading this last rant I will no longer bother about him. It's clear now that Van Gundy wasn't the only one to fault. That's pure arrogance! the NBA should adapt to me or else I leave.
Who does he think he is. How many Americans go to play in Europe every year? does the cultural gap, the rules changes, and other difficulties make them quit? JR Holden said recently that in Greece salaries does not come easily for instance, but he did not quit.
It's time to cut any ties with guy. No need to mention him anymore on this board.

 

Source?