vspan: NBA nearly destroyed me, but I no longer hate Van Gundy's lies

statistics in favor of spanoulis:

 

it *has* to end here. We are only 8 days training camp.

we can't be bring V-Gina into the preseason games.

 

Vspan is a srucb. Alston is scrub too.

in fact, Vspan >> Alston. Vspan got us Scola. Vspan has a future.

Alston has negative value, trading him might cost us Head. Alston will go back to the street soon.

JVG gave more minutes to Alston than he deserved.

JVG failed, sucked, lied, fired, and bye-bye forever.

Rockets won the summer and will win more.

 

hold on a second. If Alston has a negative value and Yao has a positive value...that means that ATTRACT each other.

VSpan is just a scrub. I mean, he has ONLY MADE 23 FGs in the NBA. That's less than 2 baker's dozens. Hell, that's less that two regular dozens. That's like the definition of a scrub.

 

That's cause Yao is loyal to a fault. It doesn't really have anything to do with francis per se, but more that he was the first teammate he met when he arrived in the US. Place any other player in that situation and Yao would feel the same way. Ryan bowen could have been the one to meet yao at the airport and show him around houston and stuff and Yao would be missing bowen too.

 

If you saw all this with your "own two freaking eyes" looks like you need glasses, the Milhouse kind. Alston as bad as made alot of us want to reach into the TV and slap some talent into him, wasn't the worst point guard on the team.

 

No it's call not wearing the homer glasses and not drinking the kool aid cause alston was downright atrocious last year and was the main reason we got knocked out in the playoffs.

 

like Cuttino Mobley.

Now he is sexy. Much sexier than Francis. And Yao never said he loved Mobley like he did Francis. That's just a fact. And Mobley is actually the one who met Yao first....Not Francis.

Well actually Rudy T and Colin Pine are the ones who met Yao at the airport. But you know what mean. I'm just making a figurative point ... not a literal one.

 

Personal insults? You mean the JVG lover title? There are plenty of those around here. I hope JVG does get another head coaching job there are plenty of bad teams out there that he could help, but lead them to a title I don't see it. The days of smash mouth slow down basketball are over with the new rules that allow zone defense and no hand checking on perimeter players. The NBA game has changed and Jeff has not and that's why at the moment he is extinct as a coach. If Jeff does get another job, at the very least it might put a lot of old arguments to bed for good on this board.

Is the article legit I believe it is. Some posters here and I'm not calling any names have selective memory. They remember things in an idealistic way with bits and pieces of reality in it. One thing you can say about JVG is he was a demanding coach that believed in results and when he was judged by his own standard he couldn't produce those results. The rest is history because the Rockets have a new head coach and I for one thought Adelman would be a perfect fit for Yao and Mac long before old grumpy got the heave hoe.

 

so, what exactly does this have to do with VSpan being a scrub. It's like you're in a FIRE JVG ! thread and not a VSpan SUCKS! thread.

weird.

 

That's cause cuttino wanted to trade him for lamar odom! (with francis agreeing with him, but it was cat's idea)

 

Blah wrong quote.

 

Trades don't happen in a vacuum. If you plan to make a trade, you have to look at the other players on the team, and anticipate future moves that may be made in the near future. So, yes, if the plan was to do Spanoulis for Scola straight up, without any plans to make moves in the other areas, maybe that trade doesn't happen. But I think the Rockets had decided very quickly that they wanted to do the James for Howard deal, and that meant Spanoulis's value dropped even further than where it was before, and the need for a PF increased. That deal was on the table during the season, remember, and I think Morey was planning on finalizing it even before the offseason started.

I don't want to lose sight of the original thread of discussion. You said the Rockets were willing to give up JVG and wanted Spanoulis back. But I think that obscures what the situation really was. We were willing to replace JVG with a very good coach in Adelman. Were we willing to replace/trade Spanoulis for a player who we thought could really help us? Just using Scola as an example, I think yes. My point is merely that portraying it as the Rockets wanting JVG gone and V-Span back is an oversimplification.

The trade for Mike James occurred on 6/14, which I believe was right at the beginning of the offseason. If the goal was to bring back Spanoulis in a more prominent role and the Rockets were confident he could play well under Adelman, why would they make that trade?

There were differences between JVG and Les. Sure. But that was well known before last season, and the owner still offered him an extension (which JVG refused). JVG was even given a chance to return right after the playoffs, but he again relented. Yes, control was an issue. But it wasn't the Rockets refusing to bring back JVG unless he relinquished control -- that's putting it backwards. It was JVG didn't want to return without guarantees of control over the team.

You make some solid points here. Absolutely, our offense needed some more versatile playmakers outside of McGrady. But you're convinced Spanoulis could have filled in that role effectively, while I'm not.

I really wanted Spanoulis to succeed, and I never went to the extreme of saying he'd never make it in the NBA. But he had a lot of weaknesses, and while he might have shown some flashes of nice play now and then, what I saw overall was a young player with a lot of holes in his game. For him to openly challenge the coach instead of diligently working on his weaknesses and trying to earn his playing time (like all the other young players) really rubbed me the wrong way. That's not how you're supposed to do things. A player has to earn the trust of his coach, and Spanoulis never understood that.

Unfortunately, none of us know everything. I can only go off of what I've seen and what's documented, and then trust the opinion of people close to the team for the rest.

JVG's focus was to put the Rockets in the best position possible to advance in the playoffs. He coached the team to a 52-win season, with Rafer starting every game, and home court in the first round against an evenly matched Utah Jazz team. Those are pretty good results, startling even considering all the setbacks during the season. I know Rafer is everyone's favorite punching bag, but he played 3000 minutes on the 5th best regular season team in the league. And he had a +11.5 On/Off rating. He and the coach were doing something right. And if you want to respond that it was all T-Mac's doing -- well, weren't you also criticizing how JVG used T-Mac?

Now, is it mismanagement that JVG didn't want to experiment with Spanoulis, a player who did not fit in his system, and possibly jeopardize our position in the standings? I don't think so. Our chances of advancing past the first round would have been significantly less were we matched up against SAS, DAL, or PHO without home court advantage.

 

yeah, but Francis is the one who said "It's Over!"

besides, Phil Jackson traded Shaq for Odom...so that proves he would have traded Yao for Odom as well.

 

That's because this was from a previous line of thought that had nothing to do with V-span, but if you want my opinion about him I'll give it to you. I think he should've gotten more minutes last year. Would he have become the next Steve Nash probably not, but hell Alston didn't get many Nash comparision either. He got into a pissing match with JVG because he was promised playing time by CD and Jeff took the stance that no one was going to tell him anything about his roster decisions.

Early in the season if Jeff had given V-span a real chance to play and V-span sucked than he would've had more definite proof to sit him. He might have even saved his job by being more flexible by playing guys the front office went out and got. How long do you think Adelman will be coach if next year he decides not to play Bonzi, Scola, Brooks, and Francis all based on personality clashes with these players?

 

How much playing time would constitute a "real chance to play"?

 

---> See jermaine oneal's, tmac's, manu's and nash's first couple years in the league.

 

If he was to be the primary backup to Alston who averaged 37 mins a game last year I would say at least 10 minutes a game from Alston and maybe 5 to 8 minutes from Head who averaged a little over 27 mins per game. I think Billy could have found a nice niche in around 15-18 mins on the floor not including garbage time at the end of blow outs.

 

Code:

 TmG Date       Tm   Opp GmResult   GS  MP  FG FGA  3P 3PA  FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF PTS
  11 2006-11-20 HOU @NYK W  97-90    0  13   0   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   1   0   0   1   2   0
  12 2006-11-22 HOU  WAS W  86-82    0  17   4   6   2   3   0   0   1   1   2   3   0   0   0   1  10
  13 2006-11-25 HOU  MEM W  85-76    0   9   0   2   0   2   0   0   0   1   1   0   0   0   1   1   0
  14 2006-11-28 HOU  MIN W  82-75    0  11   0   2   0   1   4   4   0   0   0   0   1   0   0   0   4
  15 2006-11-29 HOU @PHO L  91-102   0   6   0   2   0   1   0   0   0   1   1   1   1   0   1   2   0
  16 2006-12-02 HOU  CLE W  81-63    0  18   1   6   1   3   0   0   0   4   4   0   1   0   1   1   3
  17 2006-12-05 HOU  GSW W 118-90    0  23   4   9   1   4   4   4   0   0   0   2   1   0   5   2  13
  18 2006-12-06 HOU @MIN L  84-90    0   6   1   2   0   1   0   0   0   2   2   0   0   0   1   0   2
  19 2006-12-08 HOU @CHA W  92-62    0  18   2   5   0   0   0   0   0   2   2   3   0   0   3   2   4
  20 2006-12-09 HOU @WAS W 114-109   0  15   0   1   0   1   2   2   0   0   0   1   1   0   2   2   2
  21 2006-12-12 HOU  LAL L  94-102   0  19   1   3   0   1   1   2   1   0   1   4   0   0   1   1   3
  22 2006-12-14 HOU @GSW L 107-109   0  10   0   5   0   3   0   0   0   0   0   3   0   0   0   2   0

So that's not sufficient?

 

---> None of them was as awful as spanoulis - which is amazing given that three of the four you mentioned were straight out of high school.

You suck at BBS use. I suggest you downgrade to a 14.4k modem and used the internet only for email and downloading DOS games.