I thought I would never do this, and I apologize to some of the other posters that I have called negative. But I can't take it anymore! So, after watching the Rockets play a hard-fought contest short-handed, I have had lost patience with some of the "starters". Glen Rice is someone that I desperately wanted to do well because I knew so many people were against him coming here. I have given him 13 games now and he still can't produce like we need him to. You can say that we are not running plays for him and that he is still out of shape, but come on: how many games does it take to get into playing shape?? Also, Kelvin Cato is not even a good role player let alone a starter. I thought, silly me, that maybe he would give a damn and do something this year, especially as a starter, but I was wrong. I can't figure out though if he's just lazy or he's lazy and he really has no talent except for being big. Until Kenny Thomas comes back healthy, we should start this line-up: SF Walt PF Eddie (with Kenny returning once healthy) C Willis SG Mobley PG Francis IMO, the Wiz has earned a starting spot over Rice. Now, I know some of you are going to say that Cato and Rice make too much to be sitting, well, I say screw them...until they show that they can consistently produce, why let these underachievers take time away from guys who have produced? Some comments about the game: Officiating sucked on both sides, but the charge call on Torres and then the subsequent no-call when Torres "lost" the ball were the worst..bad enough to cause Rudy to get ejected. TMo does not need to shoot outside. Granted he hasn't gotten to play much, but the few times he has played, he hasn't come close to hitting a 15+ jumper. Calvin Booth is the ugliest human being that I have ever seen! I grimaced every time they showed a close-up of his homely mug. Hopefully, Francis and KT will play against the Clippers on Sunday...let's pray that a promising season doesn't get wrecked by injuries.
I posted this in another thread, but this is something that needs to be repeated: When Kenny and Steve are ready to come back into the lineup, Rice does not need to be out there over Walt! A look at the stats for the two (after the first 12 games): Rice - 366 minutes, 28 rebounds, 107 points, 9 three pointers made out of 40 attempts, 8.9 PPG average, 23% three point shooting percentage Williams - 249 minutes, 30 rebounds, 108 points, 20 three pointers made out of 45 attempts, 9.0 PPG average, 44% three point shooting percentage So, despite playing more than a 100 minutes more than the Wizard, Walt has more points, 3 pointers made and attempted, more rebounds, better RPG average, better PPG average, and a better 3 point field goal percentage. This begs the inevitable question: how much longer does Rudy stay with Rice? I know that I am hammering the guy, but with Francis and Mobley playing way too many minutes, we are already seeing the after-effects of this. Hopefully, only one or two games will be the most that either one of them misses, but playing major minutes opens them up for nagging injuries. With Francis and KT out, someone else had to step it up along with Mobley. That someone needed to be Glen Rice. He doesn't step up and we lose (although there were more reasons than that, but that was the biggest, IMO). BTW - interesting statistic - in total rebounds through 12 games, Cato ranks 5th on the team. He trails Willis, Francis, Thomas, and Mobley! That is pretty bad that a starting center, one 7 feet, no less, is getting outrebounded by both backcourt members! Just another reason why Willis needs to start over Cato as well.
I too am disappointed with Rice, but I want to try to venture a partial defense for his another time. With regards to Cato, I don't challenge the primary thrust of your criticism of his rebounding, but it is worth considering that he's second in the team in rebounds per minute production. The guy only gets 19 minutes a game. He plays the least minutes of the starters, and slightly less minutes than Willis as well (admittedly, for good reason). Cato is more efficient (albeit, not by much) in both defensive and offensive boards than Kenny, Cuttino and Steve. Given 15 more minutes per game, he could be averaging 8 rpg, 2 offensive. That's not spectacular, but acceptable for a big man. Don't get me wrong; I too am not thrilled with Cato, and I do think it's significant that he's getting outrebounded by the guards, but give credit where credit's due. Steve's 34th in the league in rebounding, out-rebounding guys like Anthony Mason, Joe Smith, Raef LaFrentz and David Robinson. While we should be critical of Cato for his deficiencies, we should also be more than thrilled that we have such a great rebounding backcourt. And the Rocks overall aren't too shabby in the rebounding department. We're still 12th overall.
Guys, how are we going to develop chemistry if you keep screwing with the lineup? And it takes longer then 13 games to get into playing shape when you missed all summer and preseason rehabbing. Remember a few years ago, 1998, when Dream had surgery on his knee, it took him 2 to 3 months to really start getting close to what he used to be. It took him far more then 13 games. No way can a player miss the time that Rice missed and be ready in 13 games, especially shooters. So yes, it takes FAR more then 13 games to get into shape after missing all summer. But you throw Walt and Willis into the starting lineup so who comes off the bench? Where is the fire power to bring into the lineup when the starters are down? Interesting enough, other then 3pt shooting, Rice matches up well with Walt, And that is while he is fitting into a new system on a new team and still getting his legs into shape.
c- Eddie f- Glen f- Walt g- Cat g- Guess?? with K9 subbed in for whichever forward isn't hitting that night.
I agree with RocksMillenium. You guys are giving up too quickly. If you look at the box scores of each game, Walt has only blown Rice away in 3 games & was statistically better in 2 more. Otherwise, Rice has been even or better overall. I will admit that Walt's shooting percentages are much higher than Rice's, but I attribute that to Walt being in one of his hot streaks. He'll cool off, he always does. Give Rice until the all star break, then reevaluate him. I think his defense is already better than Walt's & our record reflects the teams improved defensive play. The offense will come around. After all, Francis & Mobley are the only 2 starters from last years lineup (Cato didn't play enough to be considered a starter) & we've only played 13 games with this lineup. Have patience, we're still in the thick of the playoff race & are currently the sixth seed. YA' JUST GOTTA' BELIEVE!!!
I believe Willis is best off the bench as a scorer when our main guys are on the bench. Rice needs to sit out a couple games and learn how to shoot again... Cato/Willis EG/KT/Willis/Tmo Wiz/Oscar/Rice/Tmo/Langhi Cat/Oscar/Francis Francis/Mooch 1-3-1 Zone Stats on EG and Mooch please, thanks!
Through 12 games the stats for EG and Mooch are as follows (note: I don't keep up with assists, shooting percentage, etc., only the ones I list) Griffin: 10 games played, 126 minutes, 30 rebounds, 35 points scored, 3.5 PPG average, 5 three pointers made out of 14 attempts, 36% three point shooting percentage Mooch: 12 games played, 210 minutes, 17 rebounds, 51 points scored, 4.3 PPG average, 2 three pointers made out of 6 attempts, 33% three point shooting percentage Okay, I can see where some of you are coming from (RocksMillenium, Relativist, Hottoddie), but this situation sorta reminds me of Mobley last season. Dude was tearing it up off the bench but never got to start for the longest time. It was like Rudy was superstitious and thought that if Mobley did start, then we would be really, really bad. Now, I'm not saying that Walt is another Mobley, but he's the same type of player as Rice and maybe sitting Rice down would be a good shake-up for him. As for Willis, he most definitely needs to be starting over Cato. KW may be more like Mobley in coming off the bench than the Wiz. Also, I would like to see more of Eddie Griffin rolling to the basket and scoring in the paint. He gave us some great flashes of that last night, but he still has settled for 3 pointers too much, IMO. If he can continue to score like that in the paint, then he would definitely need to start over KT, even though KT has played well this year.
MR, nba.com lists different #s for EG and MN. e.g. EG (hmmm... new nickname "example?") has 51 pts., MN has 70. l8.
Right now I wish the lineup would be: Griffin Kenny Rice Mobley Francis If Rice does not show some serious improvement in 8 or so more games then he needs to be benched for Walt. Rice would have more scoring opportunities with the second team anyways. As for Griffin at center, I think there are only three legitimate centers in the West: Shaq, Wussy David and Flopper Divac. So EG should not have that many problems guarding other team centers. After yesterdays performance he definitely starts deserving more playing time. As for Cato, he shouldnt even be in the second team. Just use him when we play Shaq to get six fouls. He is a waste of a human being.
Yea, when I quoted the stats for BGM, I hadn't included last night's game, only the first 12. I've been too lazy to include last night's boxscore.
It SHOULD be Francis, Mobes, TMo, MoT, Griffin But due to injury, thats not possible. Something to think about for next season though. Lurkers, et al. Check out the Fantasy Forum. Sim leagues need GMs.
Going back a little in this thread, I don't care how much a player is making. If someone else is playing better, they should be in the game. Look at Portland's roster. They have guys making big money that get very few minutes(ie. Kemp). Cato and Rice aren't cutting it right now. If they want to play, make them earn the chance.
What kind of irritates me is looking at these other teams and seeing rookies start and contribute, but all of our rookies are playing sparingly. Gasol,Battier, Johnson,Richardson,Tinsley are just to name a few. Indi made the playoffs last yr and now tinsley starts and puts up triple double and stuff. I don't think he has done enough to unseat Thomas and neither has Morris to unseat Rice, but we are looking at how our team is going to look in the near future. Morris and Griffin could perform better if their skills were maximized in the offense. Maybe Morris isn't a dead eye from 3 pt range, but no one is on our team so why have him take those shots? The same can be said of Griffin. His post up was what made him a pretty good freshman in college, lets have him focus on becoming a real good inside force, then later in his career he can move back. Most will say I don't give walt and Rice enough credit for what they bring to the table, but we seem to lose the battle night in and night out in the west at 2 positions, the 3 and 4 slots. This is where we lost out last yr and its continuing this yr. I really can't name more than 1 or 2 teams Glen and Walt could start for right now. A healthy glen coming off picks and screens involved in the offense is good, but when he's relegated to just spotting up and waiting and going some possessions without even touching the ball, doesn't bode well for him. Morris may not do much better, but he can't do any worse.
The reason we don't have our rookies starting is because we're looking to go to the playoffs and we can't afford letting our rookies hitting the rookie wall or playing as inconsistently as Tinsley, Richardson, Gasol, or whoever... Playing them would only increase TO humbers, and affect our chemistry. Next year, I'm more than positive we'll see griffin at the 3 and 4 spots. Maurice has the outside shooting ability, and ddie is more of an inside player. That's for offense. As for defense, Eddie will guard the opposing SF and MO the opposing PF. Unless Eddie grows physically bigger than MO, which, although you guys talk about, I don't think will ever happen. Also, the person who suggested we start the following next year: Griffin Mo-T T-Mo Mobley Francis I dunno how the team would do with none of those players in the starting line-up the previous year. Again, chemistry is an issue. I seriously doubt Griffin will become a C or SF. But I'm confident that him and Mo will become our starting forwards and compliment each other perfectly.
