If we can agree that he didn't play well in the 272 minutes he did get, that he performed poorly in training camp and preseason, and he had a mopey attitude most of the season -- then on what basis did he EARN more playing time? Surely you're not suggesting that he already earned the right to be a regular rotation player just based on his game against the US team. That would be silly.
Durvasa, you're simply no sports moneyball guru. Just look at these numbers. http://www.82games.com/0607/0607HOU.HTM Who wouldn't want that on the court more often?
Based on his preseason, he wasn't good enough. He was a malcontent who couldn't stomach going from Eurostar status to NBA benchwarmer? That being said, he should have stuck it out. One season on the bench as a rookie isn't that unusual. He should have just stuck it out and played. Alston's the guy who played in front of him by comparison only played in 4 games in his rookie season and averaged 4 min per game with 0.0 points. Yeah, he should have sucked it up and stayed.
Even Steve Nash only got 4 games 3.8 mpg and averaged 1.3 ppg his rookie season. The most important stat of all however, is playing time. That's why I think on a different team with a different coach, he'd have found substantially more playing time but he wouldn't have started for any NBA team. If he had played for Don Nelson I think he'd have gotten probably about 10-14 mpg cause Don tinkers with his lineup all the time and gives multiple players a chance. I really believe that Monta Ellis as a rookie on a JVG Rockets team wouldn't have played very much same as Vspan.
Do you realize you can say this for any player that doesn't get minutes in the NBA? This isn't any proof that VSpan was any good. All you are doing is arguing that MAYBE he didn't suck.
Who's arguing, all I ever did was post interesting articles about Vspan and about the play calling and the player rotations and offensive schemes of JVG. Do I wish I could have seen Vspan play more? Yeah I did. I wanted to see if all the naysayers were right or if he was a closet Nash as Yao said. Not enough data over the course of a season to be conclusive one way or the other. This coming from an Engineer who a stat freak. Every player in the NBA was a star before he got here. Ellis was also very turnover prone but started a lot of games for Nelson. Monta Ellis if he continues to improve will likely be an All-Star someday if not very close to it. But..my point is, Ellis got a chance. I would agree with you on your point. All I can say about Vspan after all the data and all the games he played in or lack thereof is that...yeah maybe he didn't suck. Still should have grown some Gonads and continued to play in the NBA. How many players get that chance?
Yeah, is there any reason for this thread to exist? I would say merge the threads, but it insults that already worsening thread!
Monte Ellis wasn't a rookie last year. Nelson in his first year at GS had Ellis as a sophomore. Last year was Spanoulis's first year in the NBA. How again are the two situations similar when Nelson got a more NBA-experienced player?
An Engineer who is a stat freak........ A Scientist who is a moneyball guru........ Together they are:
Ellis was a sophmore and although he was getting some minutes in 05-06 under Mike Montgomery, it wasn't anything like 06-07 when Don Nelson came out of retirement. Ellis's minutes basically doubled from 18 to 34 under Nelson and his pt avg went from 6.8 ppg to 16.5 ppg. Ellis got minutes in his rookie season cause well...the Warriors just sucked. But when Nelson came on board, bang...Ellis's minutes skyrocketed. Don't think that would have happened if Montgomery were still the coach. So the situation regarding Spanoulis and Ellis are related because one player, "Ellis" got major minutes because of the situation he landed in while the other, "Vspan" rode the pine. It really depends on the team, the situation, the coach, as to whether or not you'll play or not. V-Span just got unlucky. It's the reason why Yi is balking about playing for the Bucks.
We all can make claims that VSpan was good or not. But either way I think we all can agree that he could have managed his situation a lot better instead of taking the easy way out. There should be no more threads and discussions over this, it's never going to get anywhere. He's irrelevant now, he's probably never coming back to the NBA. All there is left for us is to wish him luck on his journey outside the NBA and good luck, especially when his team faces our new revamped Dream Team.
For all the people that think the sample size of Spanoulis is valid and proves he "sucks" and can never play in the NBA. You need to contact 82games.com and ESPN and also John Hollinger. Because in all cases if you play under 500 minutes the stats do not count. Spanoulis barely played over half that at 272 minutes. So when you keep citing these stats and these figures keep in mind that you are conveniently leaving out the fact that these stats do not count, since they are under 500 minutes. Hollinger even makes clear that his historical stats analysis had proved that anything under 500 minutes is totally useless and isn't really a real stat at all. SI has even written about it. Now I know it's never once occurred to the stat gurus here but since they keep insulting me about "usage of stats" when they are the ones who are incorrectly using them, per the stat creators themselves......... Did it ever occur to you that anyone here can take a 272 minute sample of Rafer's play and compare it? I can very easily make Head, Lucas and Alston (all ahead of Spanoulis in Van Gundy's point guard rotation) all look just as bad if not much worse using a 272 minute sample size. I think it's a bit ridiculous that people like Sam for example keep citing these stats when the people who created them do not even count them because it's under 500 minutes. I have pointed this out several times and no one dared even touch it, yet they keep posting the stats. And yet these same people like A3PP actually has the audacity to accuse me of "skewing stats" as he put it?
All this over a player I was excited to acquire, and then watched do nothing with the time he had on the floor. Nothing worthy of a bazillion posts in dozens of threads. The obsession with the guy by certain members here boggles the mind. I was willing to be pleased by The Greek, a fellow from one of my favorite countries to visit. The result speaks for itself. He was awful. Vaselineus (pardon my French) simply sucked. I'm only sorry I missed the comedic genius of the locked thread in NBA Dish, being out of town residing in an internet Black Hole. Come to think of it, Billy needs to find his own hole that fits and crawl into it, leaving us in relative peace. Geez... give us all a break, people.
Who cares? You don't need ESPN or Hollinger Stats to determine that V-SPan did not perform well in those 272 minutes. Anyone with two eyes and watched him play all season can tell you that. So what if he had a good game against Team USA. What exactly did he do in the final game where they lost to a Pau-less Spain team? V-Span lovers always want to hold onto that game as if that is the reason he'd be a good NBA player, which is absurd. Those same people fail to realize that in the final game, his team lost 70-47. His stats? 1-10 from the floor, 0-6 3PT, and 2AST in 32 minutes. Yeah, talk about that USA game all you want and just completely ignore his performance in the final and most important game of the tournament. Stats or no stats, V-Span sucked in his time with the Rockets.
Mike James>>>>>V-Cry baby. People tend to marvel at he's supposed dribble penetration, but everytime he did penetrate which i saw of, it resulted in a TO or a offensive foul. Mike James however is a legit star in this league because he is a proven commodity. i remember watching a game he tore the heart out of the pistons and chauncy billups. he was tearing billups apart off the dribble. from memory he got to the like 18 times and hit all of those 18 shots. finished with 39 points 6 assists and 4 boards. I cant wait to see james back in a Rockets uniform. i think he's gonna be our 3rd most important player this year. just over 14 months he was having 36 and 38 points nback to back games. the wolves season was a blimp on the radar.
I'm going to post in this thread because it give me a chance to use my sig. Billy should have accepted the op with the Spurs, but he didn't so we will be left wondering what kind of NBA player he might have been. I don't think we've seen the last of Kill Bill I have a feeling he will be back in the NBA and yes it will spark thousands of posts and threads on the BBS.
