V-Span might join Spurs after friendship with Parker

Very CSI of you to do research. Put on your Horatio Caine shades!

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Trajan Langdon was All-Euro first team...the best at his position...does he count as one of "the VERY best players"? Well, he sucked in the NBA. Is that hard to believe?

I was one who said you were lying to try to make a cool point. That is because you did not say people said he would never do well in the NBA, you said people claimed he would "disappear" in Europe. Reading is fun-da-mental. Now you are trying to make it a more rational thing...yet, again, what he does in Europe obviously means nothing in the NBA since he had played really well before, as have so many others who were not good enough in the NBA.

 

My research has concluded that codell is none other than Yanly_Fan, indeed similar type style.

 

Since you cannot even fathom the difference between FIBA International and FIBA Europe, not it's not hard at all to believe you argue with something that is not even connected since you are ignorant of the subject matter.


BTW, you lie lie lie. See how easy it is to just throw around baseless accusations?

 

So you just contradicted yourself.

You claim that the only way to prove you are an NBA player is to stay in the NBA.

Ryan Bowen stayed in the NBA for 7 years straight, which by your own definition proves he is an NBA player and at the VERY LEAST an NBA player during that time.

Anyone that argues Ryan Bowen was a legit NBA player, which is precisely what you have done applying your own standard to Spanoulis that you claim is true for all NBA players.......

Anyone arguing Bowen was NBA legit is automatically enshrined into the Ryan Bowen gee club Hall of Fame.

 

He was a legitimate NBA player as long as he could hit a perimeter jumper because he hustled like few others and provided energy. There is and always will be a place for 10 mpg energy guys in the NBA, as long as they can score a bit. Chuck Hayes can get away with not having a jumper because he has developed a solid finishing ability around the basket that Bowen didn't have and would never have.

Once Bowen forgot how to hit a jumpshot, he lost a skill vital to stay in the NBA, and thus was out of the NBA the very next season. I didn't contradict myself; Bowen stayed in the NBA when he hustled and could score a bit. When his jumpshot failed him, he was then thrust out of the NBA, since he could no longer score.

At least Bowen managed to stay in the NBA for 7 seasons while your god managed just one season before he bailed. Bowen gets infinitely more respect from me.

 

Sweet!

 

Right in other words you contradicted yourself.

You either contradicted yourself OR you held Spanoulis to an imaginary made up in your own mind version of reality standard that is separate from that of other "NBA level" players.

 

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=133523&page=11&pp=20#post3079872
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=133523#post3079542
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=133523#post3079035
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=133523#post3079037

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1910998#post1910998

He has taken 4 separate posts from BEXCELANT in the same thread and reposted them into a condensed version.

Here, BEXCELANT pulls an article (admittedly from another board) from a Kill Bill Pana post just 2 hours earlier:

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=133561&page=4&pp=20#post3081380
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1910998#post1910998



They also both grouped Snyder in w/ Spanoulis when ridiculing JVG. Searching multiple threads, not one other person has done this.

At the very least, we know Kill Bill Pana visits here also. We already know BEXCELANT visits Spurstalk. He reposts Kill Bill Pana's posts. Kill Bill Pana obviously reposts Bexcelant's posts. BEXCELANT and BBall Scientist also vigorously defend Kill Bill Pana's rants.




Kill Bill Pana's, Bexcelant and BBall Scientist's posting times:

8/20 1241pm Bexcelant
8/20 1241pm Kill Bill Pana
8/20 1222pm Kill Bill Pana
8/20 119pm BBall Scientist
8/19 652pm BBall Scientist
8/19 643pm Kill Bill Pana
8/19 641pm Kill Bill Pana
8/19 524pm Bexcelant
8/19 513pm Bexcelant
8/19 507pm Bexcelant
8/19 450pm Kill Bill Pana
8/19 331pm BBall Scientist
8/18 1155am Kill Bill Pana
8/18 1141am BBall Scientist
8/18 1120am Bexcelant
8/18 1114am Bexcelant
8/17 812pm Kill Bill Pana
8/17 746pm BBall Scientist
8/17 731pm Bexcelant
8/17 729pm Bexcelant
8/17 728pm Bexcelant8/16 629 Bexcelant
8/16 621pm Kill Bill Pana
8/16 535pm Bexcelant
8/16 504pm BBall Scientist
8/16 446pm BBall Scientist
8/16 422pm Kill Bill Pana

Times scattered throughout the day; pretty tight grouping if you ask me. I am sure it is just circumstantial..... but there is this:

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=133561&page=14&pp=20#3086056
(and this is hard to defend; Kill Bill Pana logs on, 24 hours later, edits it and doesn't post anything while he is there)

and this:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1910998&postcount=110
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=133561&page=4&pp=20#post3081288
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=133561&page=6&pp=20#post3082706

Very similar long winded rant and layout (w/ links and bolding). BEXCELANT has several posts w/ this style also (will post follow up links).

BEXCELANT seemed awfully excited the other night when the heat came down on BBall Scientist (who went ape **** and after being accused lost it like no other poster has in a long long time). This after making it obvious that they were on the same team and fought each other's battles (alone mind you).

Sacrificing 1 username to save another?

I'm off to bed; will have more in the morning.

Carry on.

 

There is no double standard.

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=3084479&postcount=162

Bowen's performance in 2005-2006 was eerily similar on 82games metrics (on a much worse team). And he'll probably never play in the NBA again.

http://www.82games.com/0506/0506HOU.HTM

Both played like garbage and are out of the NBA. It's not much more than that.

 

Nice, but I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about a player who was selected the best at his position in Europe being crap in the NBA. You were talking about a tournament of the very best of Europe (in which Span is doing well) saying that someone who is that good would obviously o well in the NBA. Even though they are different it stands to reason that Langdon is one of the best players in Europe right now based on his All-Europe nomination. Again, you need to pay better attention to what someone is saying and not jump to false conclusions that I think all of European basketball is one league.

So I guess you agree that you changed your stance from claiming people said Span would suck in Europe to he would never do well in the NBA? Thanks.

I am just trying to help you out because you are the same person who tried to argue with me that I said VSpan shot the 3 poorly in the Euroleague when I only stated he shot it poorly in the Worlds prior to meeting Team USA.

Together we can overcome anything.

 

Uh-oh.

If this were an episode of COPS, something tells me the guy with no shirt on would BBall Scientologist/BEXCELANT.

Somebody's about to get busted.

I sure wish I could give this thread a 7 or an 8.

 

You can't compare the player Mike Batiste was 4 years ago when he left the NBA with the player that he is now. Players evolve and become better. A mediocre player can become a good player, given time and practice. I'll be the first to admit that Batiste was crap when he first came to Greece. All he could do was jump high and dunk the ball and nothing else. Actually Panathinaikos wasn't going to resign him after his less than stellar first season but the player who was to replace him failed his medical tests at the last minute, so Batiste stayed because there was no alternative. Batiste trained and worked very hard to get where he is today and has managed to improve his output every single year. I think he could easily be a 6th or 7th man for any NBA team. PJ Brown and Antonio Davis were unknowns too when they played in Greece and very different players from what they eventually became and I don't think they did too bad in their respective NBA careers.

Anyway, V-Span gave a new interview in a Greek newspaper where he talks about the Rockets, Van Gundy, Adelman, Yao, McGrady and other things as well, I thought you'd be interested so here are the NBA-related parts:

You'll face Houston in a friendly game soon, how does that make you feel?

I'll feel strange for sure, I was there for a year, many things happened. In the end though it's just a friendly game, it's about the team getting better and ready for the next season and that's where our focus will be. It's Rockets vs. Panathinaikos, not Rockets vs. Spanoulis.

Won't you feel like you have to prove something?

No, I'll do what I do in every game and that is play my best so that my team can win. It's not important for me if I play well or not as long as my team wins.

How would you describe the year you had in Houston?

Strange... it surely wasn't like I expected it. I left Greece with dreams but things didn't work out my way. But in basketball, as in life, you don't always get what you expect and in that case you have to make sure that you get something out of even a bad situation and I think I did get something out of this.

What do you think you gained?

It was an important experience for me. I had this dream to play in the NBA since I was a child. For better or worse, I've debunked it. I know now that all this advertising, all this fuss about the NBA is just a myth and nothing more. At least that's how it seems to me...

Was it different or harder than you expected?

No, not harder. Different. It was the difference that made it difficult for me. Different way of life, many games, hardly any training, an undisciplined way of playing and too much individualism, people care more about themselves than they do for the team. That kind of playing just doesn't work for me. Of course, I'm talking only about myself, I know that there are many other players who don't have a problem with that. And I should add that I'm refering solely to my experience with the Rockets; if I was in a team with a more "European" kind of mind-set maybe things would be different.

There has been a lot of talk about your negotations with the Rockets administration last summer, about the things they had promised to you and so on. What is the truth behind all that?

I had talked with the GM, Carroll Dawson. He had come to Athens to talk with me many times. I had already explained to him my mindset, my character, the role I want to assume in the teams I'm playing in. I had told him I wanted to be an active part of the team. I'm not saying that I expected to have the same role I had in Panathinaikos and Greece. I knew that I'd be a rookie with many things to learn, but I wanted to be sure I'd have some function in the team. He had assured me that things would be exactly as I wanted them, that they needed me a lot and that to them I was a player who would play many seasons in Houston and become a valuable player for the team. So after all that, and since the NBA was a childhood dream, I agreed to play there. But things turned out different.

What was the first shock for you?

It wasn't a matter of "shock". First of all I thought that there was contact between the GM and the coach but it turned out that they hadn't talked about me at all. Van Gundy doesn't usually play rookies or Euro players and I was both so it was difficult for me. I had done my homework of course, I knew Van Gundy's reputation beforehand so I spent a lot of time talking with the administration before I joined, telling them there was no way I'd go there unless I had an important role in the team. They managed to convince me that I wouldn't have any problem so I went there.

Your relationship with Van Gundy, things that he said, like that they got Tsakalidis so you could have someone to whine to, how much of all this was true?

In all my life I had the attitude of a man, fair and square. I never had any problem with a coach in my career. On the contrary, I have great respect for the role a coach has in a team. As a player, my job is to follow his instructions for the best of the team. It was just a matter of me and Van Gundy not having the same mindset. He would say one thing in front of me and then say something different behind my back. What you said about Tsakalidis really happened. After a training session he talked to me and said that he was very pleased with my improvement and that if I continued like that I was sure to find my role in the team. He said that I deserved to be in the NBA and that I would become an important player for the Rockets. He said he wanted us to end all our previous disputes. I told him that I respected him and that I would gladly forget all our problems so that we could have a good cooperation. That was two days before Jake signed. Once Jake signed, Van Gundy came out and said that thing about bringing him there so I could whine to him. Two days ago he told me that he didn't want to create any more problems between us and then he went and made a comment like that. I don't hold any grudge against him though, every person has his own quality and standards and I respect that.

Did he ever tell you "I don't see you as part of the team's rotation"?

Yes he did, in spring. He told me: "I don't know you as a player. You weren't my choice and I don't know how to use you. I don't know what kind of player you are, I don't know if you're a winner or a loser. I've seen a couple of DVDs of you playing but I can't form an opinion solely from that." During training, we almost never played against eachother (the players), so he couldn't see me in the court either. At least I had a very good relationship with the players, they were all great guys.

And with McGrady? Because that was written as well, that your relationship wasn't good.

I had a great relationship with Tracy. He believed in me, as did Yao. I respected all of them, because they treated me like an equal, despite all their years in the NBA. And in a very difficult year for me they managed to make me feel better.

Have you talked with any of them since you left Houston?

Yes, I've talked with Battier, Novak, Yao has called me once... I'll keep in touch with some of the guys because it's worth it, it's important to keep friendships like these active.

What about Adelman? Didn't his effort to get you to come back influence you at all?

No, it didn't influence me. I had already made my decision not to come back because NBA didn't fit me. I have great respect for Mr. Adelman and what he did was incredible. It's a very big honor for me that such a well-known, distinguished and experienced coach would call me and try to explain to me how much he wanted me in the team. I didn't expect that. It really surprised me, pleasantly of course. He treated me entirely different than Van Gundy. He knew a lot about me, he had watched many of my European games with Panathinaikos and Greece, he had even watched some of the training sessions at Houston and he told me he didn't understand at all why I didn't play last year. He told me that this year things would be different for me and that he had every intention to utilize me to my full potential. But I had already made my mind and I don't like changing my decisions once I take them.

With all due respect, doesn't that make you a little stubborn?

(Laughs) No, I'm not stubborn. I'm just a realist and I know what's better for me, I know what makes me happy and at this point that was coming back to Greece. Still, it was a privilege to get a phonecall from a coach of the calibre of Adelman and hear all those good things he had to say about me.

McGrady talked to Adelman and told him you should stay, and Morey said that your ability to penetrate is equal to McGrady's. Didn't all that praise make you even for one moment to reconsider your decision?

I thank them a lot for their praise. But I had made my decision. When you're in a situation where you don't feel good about yourself, you're not enjoying what you're doing, the best thing to do is to leave like a gentleman and with your honor intact and I think that's what I did.

Do you regret now that you went to the NBA?

I don't regret anything. I've never regreted a choice I made. I'm happy I made my childhood dream a reality, because if I hadn't, I would always have it in the back of my mind, that I had the chance to go to the NBA and didn't take it. I would always wonder what might have happened. Now I know myself better and I know which way and philosophy of playing suits me.

Would you ever return to the NBA?

The NBA is out of my mind now. I had a lot of time to think about it and I can honestly and with a cool head say that the way of playing and way of life just doesn't suit me.

So you wouldn't try it again?

No, no! I wouldn't because European basketball suits me better. I'm 100% sure of that now.

But if you had played more, wouldn't you change your mind? If all the things they had promised you were realised, wouldn't you stay?

I would stay but only in order to honor my contract. I'm not the kind of person who doesn't honor his contracts. I never left a team in the middle of the year. So I would probably stay all 3 years but then I would leave once my contract was over. It wasn't so much a matter of playing or not, it was a matter that I simply didn't enjoy my life there. I had a very bad time. I made some new friends, met some Greeks that helped me a lot, some good people to whom I'll be eternally grateful, but in the end it all comes down to the fact that the way of life there just doesn't suit me. The culture it totally different than the one I'm used to.

What played the most important part in this? There was a lot of talk about your family and your mother...

After my father's death, my mother, my brother and I have become very close to eachother. We have a really strong bond. So me and my mother being in Houston and my brother back in Greece wasn't an ideal situation for us. Of course I accepted it because I'm a pro and it was something we all decided I should try. But surely the fact that I was separated from my family didn't make me happy. We had already decided that if I was to stay in the NBA, my brother would come and stay with us as well, despite that meaning that he would have to abandon his career in Greece. This just shows how strong the bond in my family is.

A lot of people say you "gave up" very easily.

That's ridiculous! I'm selfish to the bone, but I have the good kind of selfishness, the kind that you never give up even when you're losing, even when you're not playing well. But when you see promises that were made to you being broken, when you're unhappy because someone didn't treat you right, it's not about giving up. I want to do the things in life that make me happy. I want to be with people who respect me, who love me and who are fair towards me. I'm a sentimental person so I couldn't stay on a team that didn't treat me with respect and didn't keep its promises to me.

 

Hmm...

From reading this it seems that the whole situation was neither Span's nor Van's fault, but the fault of management for not including the coach in their discussions of bringing Spanoulis over, with the major role they promised. However, Spanoulis does seem stubborn and immature for not considering returning after the Rockets hired Adelman (a coach that would have "suited" the style he missed).

In the end, of course, Spanoulis ended up getting the Rockets Scola, so it was a winning situation for the team.

I hope he does well at home.

 

What it really comes down to is the relationship between CD/Morey and Van Gundy finally became dysfunctional and VSpan was caught right in the middle. Hence, Van Gundy is gone and VSpan was the collateral damage.

Van Gundy blew this one big time. Great job, great organization, great team, and a stubborn yankee unwilling to work with those around him.

 

Reading comprehension clearly isn't your strong point. Hustling and being able to score a bit is NBA level ability. There is and always will be a place in the NBA for 10 mpg hustle guys, as long as said hustle guys can score a bit. I clearly said that in my previous post.

Now once Bowen stopped hitting his jumper, he became useless, and he got cut, and he'll probably never play in the NBA again.

The only reason you think I'm holding Spanoulis to an "imaginary standard" is that in your own mind Spanoulis is clearly superior to Bowen, and thus there shouldn't be any reason Spanoulis can't hold down a spot in the NBA. Well, you're wrong. Spanoulis provided no serviceable skill to an NBA team, while Bowen for a time did.

 

This is amazing. I mean, there is "beating a dead horse with a stick," and then there's the debacle of this thread:

Flattening the exhumed remains of a Helenic-wars-era equine corpse with a steamroller.

Each and every bone bursts into a cloud of sad, antique dust.

It is so slow and painful to watch, like observing V-span's mental processes in an NBA-speed game. But how can we look away -- how often do you see an ancient horse skeleton crushed at 1 mph?

 

Nice article about V-Span, I wish him luck.

Clearly JVG's joking in the press was misunderstood by Billy and caused the rift to deepen.

I don't understand how management and coach can not even speak to each other, or at least consult, that is not exactly building a winning organization.

That alone is worth having Adelman as our new coach.....got to move on.....

Good Luck Billy.....enjoy Greece, and thanks for Scola !!

And Codell,

Interesting, but any correlation doesn't really register, I think you wasted your time....heck if you took one of my (ehem) discussions with Sam Fisher, we could look like Gollum the poster.......my.....preciousssssss.

DD

 

And of course good old cooperative team player, CD's golf buddy, Rudy T made got all the personnell moves to work before the arrival of the Stubborn Yankee...

 

They might not have worked but at least they got together and discussed them.

I mean how can a GM and coach not talk about personell moves, unless the GM & Owner have made up their mind to build the team their way and deal with the coach later (like firing).

I mean, that is what is most distressing, that CD and JVG didn't communicate.....I find that appalling......if they were not getting along, they should have fired JVG BEFORE last season.....or havve CD step down....

I guess it was just circumstances.....JVG's last contract year, CD retiring, and Billy caught in the middle........

But, hey....we got SCOLA !!!!

dd