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Francis say we are not ISO

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by heypartner, Nov 15, 2001.

  1. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    On Jim Rome, he says "it is just a mystique" this year. "We've proven it in the first 8 games."

    Now, we can argue with our PG that he is wrong, that we are not executing ball movement, picking, slashing, etc., but why would he lie? At least let's say that Rudy is teaching something else for the team to run. Execution may be poor, but it is not guard ISO after guard ISO.

    What I've found in many posts, lately, is this concern about bad picks for Francis and too much dribbling. The pnr pick is not a bad pick if both defenders run around it to double team (trap) Francis. If both defenders go over the pick (one from each side), the only pick in the world that can stop one of them is an illegal moving pick.

    Now, these traps cause us trouble. They cause Francis to have to dribble around sometimes waiting for the picker to get a pick first to help prevent traps, sometimes he's dribbling after the trap happens, because he's being smothered, or because he got away from the trap and he's looking for a passing lane. But it is not ISO, just as Francis says.

    Francis also said, "watch us." I say, watch for the traps, and watch the weakside timing. We suck when our weakside timing is bad. It often results in a busted play and Francis has to improvise with whoever is near him. Doing a double pick for Rice when Francis is being smothered with a trap is useless, for instance.
     
  2. WoodlandsBoy

    WoodlandsBoy Member

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    They don't run ISO but call it what you want. Alot of people stand around waiting for something when the rox are on offense running their plays.... call it a simple pick and roll....What ever it is it is not working...
     
  3. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    And I say, all solutions hinge on dealing with the trap. Cutting to the basket when Francis is being doubled 24 ft away from the basket is useless. Having Francis pass the moment he gets across half court so he doesn't get trapped is also exactly what the defense wants--a gun-shy Francis who will pass before he is doubled.

    Passing just to be passing is not what we want either. We have to win with Francis setting it up....which means first beating these damn traps.

    Mabye we will see Francis give it up across the line, then run all the way around the baseline to receive the ball again, but what if that is denied. Now we have 13 seconds on the clock, and Francis has been taken out of the play.
     
    #3 heypartner, Nov 15, 2001
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2001
  4. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    I was going to suggest something like this. Even if it is denied, I feel that just by forcing this extra movement, more lanes, open shots, etc should open up for someone.

    Additionally, the Rockets ARE running ISO after ISO specifically for Kenny Thomas. KT has been fabulous this yera, but we can't win expecting him to take his man on ISO's day in and day out.

    With a man to man defense against us, why doesn't picking for a shooter, ala Rice, with a pick and roll on the other side of the floor, work? Rice might not end up wide open but someone should be open at least for a second somewhere on the court.

    Finally, I wonder what the impression of our offense would be IF we were hitting our open shots. Maybe it only seems like ISO because that is all that is actually working at the moment.
     
  5. T he Jockstrap

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    The problem isn't Stevie, it is Moochie. He dribbles the damn ball so much he looks like a newborn baby suckling from his mamma. Rudy needs to recognize this.We will always have a problem unless we get some inside scoring. That will stop all the traps.
     
  6. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

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    "Who Cares What Francis Say"
     
  7. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    First, about every team that can run ISOs to their big man, do run them. That is not like a guard or SF ISOing out 20-24' from the basket. Secondly, it isn't even an ISO if it was an option off the pnr, unless you want to call Utah iso-ing everytime Stockton passes it to Malone rolling off the pick. As often as not (if not more), the times Kenny is on the wing are a result of Francis being trapped and forced to pass to a rolling Kenny.

    Hey, I'm not trying to win an argument here. I just want a discussion about beating the traps, without someone telling me Francis should just passively pass and become a PG without the ball, coming off of cuts and such like Iverson. If you think otherwise, fine. Now can we move on. I want to talk about the traps that are beating us.
     
  8. WoodlandsBoy

    WoodlandsBoy Member

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    Maybe I don't see what you are seeing because I don't see the traps like we did last year. I think the new defensive rules alows for soft man to man defense and that is confusing Wink and Cat because they have alot less space to drive and dish...

    I will look for traps tonight...
     
  9. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    There are two common traps of us: (1) Francis being trapped deep in the back court; this doesn't happen much anymore; and, (2) the moment Francis sets and someone comes over to give him a pick, the picker's defender will join up with Francis' defender to double Francis. They do not care that the picker is now undefended, as the new rules are greatly helping rotation defense get to the rolling man. I'm betting Utah is suffering from this as well.

    This is why people have been yelling about our picks sucking. They aren't really sucking; they are being ignored. The two defenders are both going over the pick to squeeze Stevie and ignoring the picker.
     
  10. leebigez

    leebigez Member

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    If anyone wants to see how ineffective the pnr is, just merely watch Utah the best ever at the pick and roll. Teams are sagging off just like they do the rockets and as a result, the jazz looks horrible. Same thing with the Rockets. How come SA has Duncan at the ft line and david working on the same side and no one talks about their bad spacing. I would love for our big men to triangle from ft line extended down to the box and back to get some close range shots. Our O just sux right now basically.
     
  11. GATER

    GATER Member

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    I don't care what anyone calls it. The unarguable fact is that almost half of every basket the Rockets make is made without an assist.

    Contrast this to the Faker$ who have almost 2 assists for every 3 made baskets:

    LAL 62.3%
    MINN 68.7%
    SAC 59.1%
    DAL 62.3%
    SAS 57.6%
    HOU 55.3%
    GSW 58.2%
    DEN 56.6%
    UTAH 72.8%
    NJ 61.3%
    MEM 65.4%
    CHI 66.5%
    DET 66.4%
    MIL 64.2%
    PORT 62.5%

    This % is derived by: Assists/Made Field Goals.

    Maybe the Rockets need to figure out how all the other teams & PG's are beating these traps. Could be a little something called ball movement. Or even moving without the ball....what a concept!!
     
  12. leebigez

    leebigez Member

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    He just doesn't want to show the coach up. If we're not an iso team, then why does 3 guys stand on the other side of the floor with their hands on their shorts. Why is the only shots Rice gets are 25ft away, I thought he was a scorer ? Francis is doing his best to take up for the coaches strategy, but anyone watching can see this is a iso team.
     
  13. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    If you can't see the Lakers standing around weakside and Utah standing around on the weakside...sorry. Make a tape! College motion doesn't exist in the NBA like you think it does.

    24 sec clocks have 1 or 2 options to run...Go ahead, dude, pass it around and move all your want, because the defense is then going to be the team standing still waiting for you to do something in their zone.

    Oh,,,wouldn't it be nice to have Shaq in the middle to dump it to when all else fails. sheez.

    Whatever...make a new thread about it, like there aren't already a plethora of them.

    go ahead...you win. we suck. rudy sucks...and our PG sucks for not running anything....sheez....oh, but that is rudy's fault...I forgot.
     
    #13 heypartner, Nov 16, 2001
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2001
  14. davo

    davo Member

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    It's easy to say this with the benefit of seeing last nights game - this high pick that was being set for Francis worked fairly well - in fact it generated a lot of easy baskets. They just need to improve execution - Francis tries to run his defender past the pick before it is properly set, and somethimes they will run it 2, even 3 times before it works, and even then, if Francis gets doubled, the ball gets passed backed to a stagnant KT who doesn't look like he knows what to do.

    However, when the pick works, Francis either has room, or has someone like Horry/Shaq guarding him, and it allows him easy penetration. Man, did we get some easy baskets from penetration last night!
     

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