Also, I still don't understand how people think Chuck Hayes is only "slightly" better at rebounding than Haslem. Haslem's 15.5 rebound rate is good for 69th, Hayes' 17.5 rebound rate is good for 22nd in the league. I'm not going to listen to "Oh he plays less minutes so it doesn't mean anything" arugments unless someone shows me enough examples to show that higher mpg leads to lower rebound rate.
KevC, I think you're alone on this one bud. That doesn't necessarily preclude you from being right but we all watch basketball and I the majority opinion is Haslem > Hayes. I know you think otherwise and that's cool. How do you feel about Foster compared with Haslem and Hayes? I liked your argument about having the three high usage/high effiecient players on the court at one time. I've never really seen it anywhere else but it makes a certain amount of sense. I think Haslem would keep defenders honest rather than take shots away from people but that's just a guess on my part.
Those with NBA League pass have. No one is dismissing statistics. But they don't always tell the entire story, and can be easily manipulated. You don't need to watch a player play hundreds of times to note what he is good at and what he isn't good at. I can watch a few pickup games and decide who on the court can play defense, who can't, who can hit a jumper, etc. Stats should be used to assist when making comparisons. They shouldn't be used as the end all be all. if that were the case why even go watch dudes play when you scout them? Why watch game tape when deciding if you want a player, if he can fit into your system, etc? Watching Haslem play one would note that he isn't undersized like Hayes due to his length and an extra few inches, and that he can stay in front of people better than Hayes. I highly doubt you could find any team willing to give Hayes 2-3M a yera.
Actually, Haslem is an undersized PF. Hayes was even more undersized. All in all, Haslem is better than Hayes.
Foster would be much better for the Rockets than Haslem by a mile. I wrote this on another thread: It's pretty much a given we need to trade our extra guards for a rebounding big. So what does someone like Morey and I (Love statistics) do? Look at rebound rates. The single most significant statistic to measure rebounding. Let's have a look: 06-07 Rebounding rates leaders 1. Reggie Evans (22.9) 2. Dikembe Mutombo (21.8 ) (Reason why we stayed afloat with yao injured) 3. Tyson Chandler (20.7) 4. David Lee (20.7) 5. Carlos Boozer (20.5) (BOOOOO!) 6. Dwight Howard (20.5) 7. Jeff Foster (20.2) 8. Al Jefferson (19.5) 9. Kevin Garnett (19.5) 10. Marcus Camby (19.4) Only feasible options are Evans and Foster. Evans, however, grabs people's balls and is a turnover machine (21.8 turnover rate!!!!) and the Nuggets would not be interested. Foster, however, I think is very obtainable with our guards. He makes 5.7 million this year and has a 6.2 million player option next year which I think is a fair price for a rebounder of his caliber. Get this: he is currently 7th all-time in rebounding rate!
I see what you're saying. I think I would still rather have Haslem's offense over Hayes but maybe Foster would be a better option. Especially if it would mean giving up less and costing the Rockets less. Foster could be a rich mans Scot Pollard (while with the Kings, now he completely blows). I think the starting and secondary lineups need a good mix of offense and defense. Starting: C - Yao PF - Foster SF - T-Mac SG - Bonzi PG - Francis Secondary: C - Deke/Butler PF - Scola SF - Battier SG - Head PG - James 12th man can be Brooks. Although I think Haslem is a better player than Hayes, and possibly Foster too, but for the Rockets Foster in the lineup looks really good. If you want the starting lineup to be more defense oriented stick Battier at SF, and move Tracy to SG.
He isn't undersized "like" Hayes. Hayes is 6-6. Haslem is 6'8 and has a longer wingspan. I don't have the measurments but I wouldn't be suprised if he had a better vertical as well.
Maybe Snyder should be retained over Deke - but if something happened to Yao, can Foster/Haslem/Hayes, Scola and Butler man the front court?
if hayes is that good, he should make at least MLE money. The market rarely undervalues a pf or a center.
Unless he's short. I'm not saying he's a GREAT player. He's just a great player for us, much more than Haslem (who isn't even that great with Miami).
Did you read what I wrote? I repeat, Haslem IS also an undersized PF. Hayes is more undersized. Both guys play bigger than their actual sizes.
Hayes is great for us even though he is no threat to score when on the court? Hayes is great for us and Haslem wasn't that great for the Heat, even though Haslem's numbers are better? Hayes had to compete with Juwon Howard and couldn't even get 25 mpg (this is considering a significant Yao Ming injury). If he is such a great player for us why is no one else trying to sign him? Big men scrubs get money thrown at them all the time.
He's great for us BECAUSE he plays so well with Yao and complements his shortcomings. I wouldn't even think about Hayes as a "great player to us" if Yao wasn't here.
Here's the thing that makes me doubt this... Morey rarely telegraphs his trades in the media. No one knew the Landry trade or the Newley trade was in the works. No one had the specifics of the failed Fernandez trade, either. And of course the Scola trade was a total suprise. There were words about the Francis deal, but that's a FA signing. My guess would be, even though there WILL be a trade, when it happens, it's more likely to be a suprise to us rather than something the media reported already.
having haslem doesn't mean we don't need hayes. hayes compliments yao so well, and so does haslem. many forgot, hayes is only 24, same as landry. they both are going to improve. keeping hayes might not be meaning we're going to use him this season alot, but in few years, where he may blossom, he can be a key contribute. swift had potential, but he was dumb, hayes isn't dumb. he knows when to put back on an offensive rebound or give it back to top of the key. he knows how to cut/move so he can get open.
wow....i really don't see anyway you can say foster is better than haslem. yeah foster is a great rebounder but that is all he does. haslem is a solid rebounder and defender and he can also play offense. there is a good reason why foster has never been able to get more than 25 mpg in his career. plus foster is 3 years older than haslem. their contracts are comparable so haslem is clearly the better option. we don't need guys who can only do one thing. we need players who are contributing in all areas and haslem can do that...foster cannot.
Just one quick question, since I can`t follow too many games and aint that good with statistics: don`t you also have to take the team a player plays for in account? On our roster we lacked good rebounders! Yao was below average especially for his size, Battier didn`t do too much here as well and Rafer/Head didn`t do good here as well. So a guy like Hayes has the single job to really go after the rebound. I don`t really know who grabs rebounds for the Heat, but I guess that Shaq and Zo get a lot, as well as Walker and Wade. To me Haslem seems to be a hustle guy who works every possession, is a decent defender who can shoot the ball and finish around the rim, while Chuck also seems to be a hustle guy, who has always a disadventage against bigger PF and who cant shoot. I`d take Haslem over him if we can get him for a reasonable price... Collison wood be ok as well, I don`t know Foster too much.
Everyone talks about Foster's rebounding, but how's his defense? Is Foster better than Haslem or Hayes?
Actually, if you see the stats, Shaq and Zo both had lower rebounds per 48 minutes numbers than Yao did (and certainly lower than Mutombo did). Juwan and TMac's numbers per 48, if you look at them are also no worse than players on the Heat. Hayes got a lot of rebounds next to other guys who are as good at rebounding as the Heat guys Haslem played with, if not better.
