It may not stabilize, but it may not get any worse either. The fact that the US contributes to the violence is an absolute no brainer. As long as the US is there - there will be an insurgency, that much is virtually assured. So I don't see why removing one of the root causes of civil conflict is going to make the conflict worse. Second, I have yet to see much evidence of the US controlling or containing things. There is already a state of lawlessness and chaos with massive truckbombs slaughtering people by the hundreds. What evidence is there that the US' policing function is at all effective? Violence has done nothing but steadily increase with each year despite continued US presence. The biggest problem I have with the "if we don't leave it will get worse!" argument is that it is basically parroted from a bunch of wonks in Washington (some of whom have been wrong about every single thing in Iraq for the last 4 years and are responsible for the mess) with very little evidentiary support, and then propogated by people without questioning the assumptions. These assumptions should very clearly be questioned if you thiink rationally about it, and I think the fact that people in Baghdad feel differently only reinforces this.
Hmm, I have ready many articles in the news that say that wherever the troops are, violence goes down. The problem is the insurgents simply wait till the troops move, or they attack places where the troops aren't. There isn't only an anti-US insurgency, most of the violence isnt against the troops but Sunnis vs. Shiite. The main efforts are getting the ethnic violence to stop so that political solutions between the groups can be made. It hasn't worked obviously, I just happen to believe the military is keeping somewhat of a lid on the violence. I agree we should question both sides of it. Despite my concerns, I am FOR our troops to leave ASAP, because I feel they are dying just to keep an inevitable civil war from happening. I guess if the Iraqis are dumb enough to want their security providers to leave, then they deserve what they get. But I'm not sure anyone deserves genocide, which will probably happen to the loser of the Sunni-Shiite civil war. Of course, I could be completely wrong. Maybe the Iraqi security forces can handle the security situation and the Sunnis and Shiites will hammer out compromises when we leave. But that sounds like Bush's wishful thinking going into Iraq.
President Bush said we should get out when those in the direct contact of the situation says the timing is right and not based on political reasons...I respect that thought.(speaking of Gen. Petraeus) But I disagree if reliance is based just on the General. There are some things that have gone wrong in Iraq because of NOT thinking of before, during, and after properly..., but let's look at what went right... 1. Saddam, who was a dictator and contributor of terroristic ideology was ousted. 2. An Iraqi government that should be at least moderate in rights (instead of absolutely none for the people), and not a cheerleader or contributor for terrorism... As I said,... we easily disposed of Saddam, but we had an unthinking strategy in the aftermath,...thanks to Bush...Recently, better leadership was put into place...A Defense secretary who was competent, and even endorsed by Democrats. A new general (Petraeus...sp?) who is KNOWN for his progressive intelligence and thinking...That is good, and given that we do everything on our part with trying to get things right,...It's time to realize this statement by Al-Maliki is what enables us to enable the new Iraqi bird to fly...We need to allow it to happen for "success" to be salvaged... Will the new Iraqi government stumble, look awkward,...and still need aid in training, weapon assistance and support intelligence?....YES! We should, and the way forward as I stated recently, is a drawdown strategy because that will be the only way the new Iraqi bird can fly...We need to allow it to...If the terrorists open themselves up...Guess what? They will be the ones to expose themselves and make mistakes...That is precisely how Israel has existed/survived...by allowing the enemies for the most part to expose themselves and make mistakes...It's a reverse attrition strategy that works! A big mistake by Bush is not taking advantage of this developed situation...he needs to address that...Otherwise, he will continue to prove himself an idiot...
Sounds overly optimistic. The Iraqi bird was supposed to fly after we freed them from Saddam. If it didn't work then why would it work now, when ethnic tensions and violence are at an all- time high?
The new Iraqi government learns the same we all do...Through experience...They now have a tad bit of that... Al-Maliki realizes especially now, that it is time for his government to shine on it's own rather than being carried...After all, his government has got to stand on it's feet and face the music...It's not like we should put on blinders and cut all strings...The U.S. will continue the training, weapon assistance and (more importantly) intel. gathering. If anything brings the people together it's a phase of getting things done for it's own good by it's own people and realizing a new Iraq is actually making the efforts to stand on it's own feet rather than being pulled up...let's face it,...they won't progress if they know to get up, they will be pulled up rather than going through the motions of doing so themselves... That is what will salvage "success"...Pres. Bush needs to realize that.
I think until he formally requests, to our leadership personnell, that we leave, this statement is contradictory.
I agree with Mr. Clutch and suspect that as soon as we leave things might get worse. The problem I see is that things don't seem to get better with us there and we may be forestalling an inevitable conflict while continuing to stoke the conflict against us. As terrible as the situation may be we may just have to let them fight it out and find their own peace.
i like that al-maliki says yes, you can leave...after we have more troops trained and more weapons. Translation: Dont leave so soon. i respect him putting on a strong front but this guy has got to feel the pressure of the US significantly lowering its troop levels (they wont all leave, lets be real) in the near term.
Got to sink or swim, as long as we are there footing the bill they will drag their feet. Set a hard date, and get the hell out. DD
We are going to have to pick a side; I'm guessing the Sunni's, setup another Saddam again, that' the only solution, regardless someone like him is gonna end up in power. That's IF we decide to leave. We went in their based on strategy, we can't just leave without something accomplished. The Iraq investment is already made, no way you take the loss, it would just be too costly.
sink or swim to a certain point. You have to at least make sure that they have the ability to swim first before you let them go. It's sort of like throwing a 1 year old in water...sometimes its too early. BUt i agree that eventually they have to do it themselves, but you want to make sure that there is a solid foundation there before you let go. hard date? i just dont think that makes much sense. Approximation, i can deal with but things can always change
So you think they are failing to stop the violence because they are dragging their feet? Our well-trained, high-tech, massively-equiped military with unmatched intelligence capabilities and financial resources can't stop the insurgents. What makes you think Iraq's army would if only they'd stop dragging their feet?
