Since you beleive people were RIGHTFULLY complaining several months ago . .before the change in tactics. . . what do you think of anyone that was defending those tactics? Rocket River
Benchmark Report Fact Check The NSN debunks the White House report’s delusional accounts of “progress” in Iraq. Some highlights: CLAIM: “The Government of Iraq has made satisfactory progress toward forming a Constitutional Review Committee (CRC) and then completing the constitutional review.” FACT: “The Committee was originally scheduled to complete its work by May 15. Instead, it delivered a draft that did not address many of the key issues.” One CRC leader recently said, “We have not committed to doing it by September.” [LINK] CLAIM: “The Government of Iraq has made satisfactory progress toward establishing supporting political, media, economic, and services committees in support of the Baghdad Security Plan.” FACT: Such public services committees have “had little impact on Baghdad’s population which still lacks access to many basic services like water and electricity.” [LINK] CLAIM: “The Government of Iraq has made satisfactory progress toward providing three trained and ready Iraqi brigades to support Baghdad operations.” FACT: According to the Defense Department, “the three brigades that came to Baghdad were understaffed and poorly trained causing a major delay in Baghdad security operations.” Only “one-half to two-thirds” of the promised 330,000 Iraqi security forces have arrived. [LINK] CLAIM: “The Government of Iraq with substantial Coalition assistance has made satisfactory progress toward reducing sectarian violence…” FACT: According to the Brookings Institute, “sectarian violence has remained constant despite the ’surge.’” [LINK] CLAIM: “The Government of Iraq — with substantial Coalition assistance — has made satisfactory progress toward establishing the planned Joint Security Stations in Baghdad.” FACT: Iraqis living nearby such “Joint Security Stations” say they “feel less safe now, because many of the bases have quickly become magnets for rocket and mortar attacks.” [LINK] CLAIM: “The Government of Iraq has made satisfactory progress toward ensuring that the rights of minority political parties in the Iraqi legislature are protected.” FACT: “The Sunnis — one of the largest and most important minority groups — are currently boycotting the government.
And here is where I disagree with the company line. It is always easy to say keep the troops there, let them fight. Well at the end of the day, you and I do not have to fight. We can sit here on our computers and post our opinions in these forums (although I was in IRAQ for 18 months). See those who feel so strongly about us continuing the fight in Iraq should sign up (or one of there kids) and head out to help out. Why not if you believe in the fight that strongly? Now, I think the wise thing to do is be strictly a support role to the IA. Adjust the mission from security to containment. Let the IA fight it out at this point stick around for support only.
Question: Who was responsible for preparing the report? Did someone from an independent source report the findings? Or did the administration do the grading themselves?
IMO, for the longest time the clincher and ultimate deathknell to the optimists is the sorry, pathetic, slippery (and definitely terminal) Iraqi government. Even if our forces were able to severely hamper the ability of extremists wreak havoc, that government would throw it all away. Anybody that thinks otherwise is on crack. If the Iraqi government was worth saving, there could be a more legit debate on whether to stay or pull out. But our troops are fighting to save an entity that is incapable of doing much of anything and is doomed to crumble. All we accomplish is bleeding our military more and prolonging the inevitable. Surfguy, I understand your point of view but let's get a couple of things straight: (1) It is a pipedream to think this Iraqi government will ever be able to run Iraq properly. This is a pure fantasy that Bush-ites propogate (2) We will not leave Iraq entirely. Toss the rhetoric from the Democratic candidates in the garbage can. Enough troops will stay behind to protect the Kurds and perhaps to make strikes against terrorists that set up shop in Sunni areas of Iraq. (3) The more we are bogged down in Iraq, the more the war against Al-Qaeda is a losing proposition. They gain morale and training. We lose manpower and lives.
It's not about the change in tactics, but about getting local and state support for what our troops are doing there. Bush admits through his report that the "hearts and minds" goals are still lacking. We buy armored vehicles for the IED. They make IEDs to penetrate the armor. Our changes are great until they adapt to it, so I hope you don't reply with the same thing 18 months down the line when a new general comes up with another plan.
i agree. not all of it relies on what the US military can do. At some point iraqis have to come together. I think removal of the militants/terrorists will aid that but ultimately the reasonable people will need to come to a compromise. Which doesnt sit well. im sure you agree
What would finally convince you that "reasonable people" will never sit down to decide Iraq's future? The decision makers are extremists who see Iraq's future as a zero sum game of winner take all. Can you understand the animosities and hatreds are so intense that the country cannot be put back together?
This is the new Bush party meme... the Iraqis can't stand up so we can't sit down. Throwing blame at the Iraqis is convenient, but remember, we invaded, we put in a constitution written by the children of big Bush donors, we tried to put in politicians favorable to the Bush message. We keep saying we're fighting terrorists over there so we don't have to fight them here... so if you really believe that, how can you fault the Iraqis for not pulling it together in the middle of a bunch of terrorists? Our actions and our rhetoric have been amazingly at odds with the idea of creating and sustaining democracy in Iraq. To top it off, how can an administration advocate democracy in Iraq when it ignores or games the basic structures of democracy here at home? The Right is frantically searching for a horse to whip and will vacillate back and forth between the Iraqis who don't want this great gift we gave them by coming in and destroying their country and the Dems who stabbed Bush in the back by focusing on the bad news. Anything will do, so long as they don't have to face the fact that the guy they supported caused the whole big mess. This is Bush's War. This is Bush's fault. But the burden has been placed on all of us. My grandkids will be living with consequences of this, the greatest blunder in US History. We owe it to future generations to hold these people accountable and make sure they never get close to power again.
You've said it better than I could. Bush's command level decisions in Iraq are hypocritical jokes, and our soldiers are there to pay for them.
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"The recipe is simple, like the directions on the back of a shampoo bottle. Damaging reports of Bush administrations malfeasance emerge. Warnings of imminent terrorist-borne doom immediately follow, all spread far and wide by said Bush administration. Lather, rinse, repeat. There are many more instances of this curious timing to be found, but apparently, no one in the administration is concerned this dubious pattern - spreading fear among the populace to change the subject, an act of terrorism itself - might start to wear thin." http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071307J.shtml We are all wired into a survival trip now. - Hunter S. Thompson
It hasn't been just a couple of months. The latest surge may have been that. But there have been other surges throughout the whole miserable campaign. Almost identical numbers of new troops injected and called new multiple times before. The latest surge isn't a new strategy. Several months ago people were complaining that things weren't working. There wasn't a new strategy, but an old one that Bush tried again and said it was "new". It isn't working either.
well something is working otherwise none of the benchmarks would have been met. I actually thought that some headway has been made in the areas where they have focused, but success stories arent as good attention grabbers as scandals and suicide bombings
Here donkey, I know you have me on ignore (funny for a guy who espouses wanting to see both sides of an argument). But I though you might like to see what benchmarks were actually met (hint - none of them).
