Wow. Honestly if I was talking Rockets at lunch with one of my buddies and he said this I would think he was being sarcastic and then I would play along with him. I would respond with something like " yeah, and we need a taller center. I was thinking maybe Joe Rogan." Then if he said "No, I'm serious." I would slap him upside the head and toss a leech on his face. Battier is pretty much described as athletic, versatile and a good shooter. I don't know if you've ever seen a Rockets game before, but he's the guy who guards every teams best scorer no matter what the position and also hits the kick out 3's on the offensive side of the court.
Battier isn't the picture of athleticism, by any stretch of the imagination. He is a solid spot up 3P shooter, and a good defender. That's about it. He does all the "intangibles" and such. He's a great asset to our team, but I'll admit sometimes I get a little tired with Battier. For one, he has a very limited offensive game, and two, though he is a good defender, that's really about it. Sure, he'll go out and guard the other team's best player, but I think we need to focus less on this and focus more on the players he actually has to guard in the league today. At the SF/SG position, in which case he'd guard the better of the two, the league is loaded with offensive talent. Shane Battier isn't going to stop LeBron, Kobe, Carmelo, Michael Redd, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and the list keeps going. Hell, I remember Ron Artest torching Battier twice last season. I remember before Battier, T-Mac was stuck guarding the opposite team's best defender, and he did just as good, if not better than Battier does, but the impact of T-Mac guarding these players was reflected in his offensive game, as he would tire out much easier. So when it comes down to it, it's like Battier's value isn't so much his good defense, but his "basketball IQ", his "intangibles". As much as I love seeing Battier flop around in his charge-taking, I must admit it does get annoying when he doesn't even bother to challenge the opposing player's shot, but instead slides under him in hopes of drawing a charge. Don't get me wrong, I like Battier, but in terms of getting a more athletic, offensively capable player, I'd be all for it. With athleticism and length, good defense can be taught. Sure, someone like Rashard Lewis is "soft" and has average defense, but defense can be coached much easier that offensive talent. Battier will never be a player that will score on his own and create his own plays, but a gifted SF with size and athleticism will always have the opportunity to become a good defender. That's why players like Kobe, McGrady, LeBron, etc. are all good defenders. People say, "Oh you need players like Battier on a Championship team." Well, maybe. To a certain extent, yes. People may point out the Spurs, who have Bowen, arguably the same type of player, just a notch over in defense. But let's compare the two teams. Duncan, Ginobli, Parker, and Finley. All players capable of getting their points and making their plays to win a game. As opposed to Houston, which is just Yao and McGrady. Of course defense is a big part of winning. Team defense. That can be coached. Defense can be built. I think we should focus more on that. Of course Battier helps, but given Houston's current build, he may be the easiest to change. Our PF spot is still empty, and I still question our PG strength. I don't know, just my opinion.
So after all of your analysis of how Battier needs to score more, do you agree that he should be traded for Pavlovic? One thing that people don't take into account is that if Battier scored more, we would have to pay him more because he would demand more salary. We already have two superstars. We won't be able to field a team of five max contracts. Someone is going to have to be the affordable role player.
I wouldn't trade him for Pavlovic, not a chance. As for the "pay him more" thing, that wouldn't really apply, because if he scored more, he's already on contract, not to mention his contract is similar to a player like Ron Artest. My point is more so a point arguing the intense focus on personal defense. Look at a player like Andre Iguodala. Great athleticism and a polished offensive game, not to mention he's becoming a great team player. He is also a good defender. The Rockets could've developed a player like that with Rudy Gay, and we may look back on it a shake our heads. But for now, we need to focus on our PF situation. My posts were just to express my opinion that I don't think Battier is as valuable as some of the other members of this board says he is.
There is a reason why Battier is involved in every single trade idea posted on this board. Because other than Yao and TMac, Battier is the only player on our team that any other team would want. Why do we want to trade this player? Besides all though, the guy is extremly smart. I mean come on, you can see the guys brain through his skull.
Maybe we can get a refund and do Battier for Rudy Gay. I remember when I heard that trade going down on draft day I was soooo pissed. Yea it made sense for that one season, but now Gay can do anything Battier can do and is better at a whole lot more. Rockets brass keeps scrubbing it up...
gay was never the rockets pick...they picked him FOR memphis...battier was who we wanted and i rather have him than gay...we wanna win now not in 3 or 4 years.
He's very limited offensively. He cannot create his own shot. If I were your friend I'd smack you back for saying Battier is athletic.
You know what? You guys are absolutely right. Battier for Pavlovic is sane. How could I have ever considered it? Why is it that very few people want to talk about Battier's shortcomings as if he has none?
You and your man seem to consider defense a non-skill, but more of an athletic, size, and effort job. While all three of those are important in defending, there are many defensive tricks. Drawing charges (when someone crashes into your head drawing blood and requiring stitches, we should probably not call it a flop) takes lots of skill and anticipation as does reading your opponents. While T-Mac is a good defender, due to his athleticism, he isn't as much of a defensive presence as Battier. Night after night Battier had to guard the best perimeter player and he succesfully shut down DWade, Dirk, and usually Kobe (You can't contain Kobe all the time).
I don't remember Battier ever successfully shutting down DWade, Dirk or Kobe. No legit scorer can be shut down. The only player of this group who has been contained well particularly in the Dallas series two season ago was Dirk and Tmac was guarding him. Once again I like Battier, but he is not all that this board is making him out to be. He is a good player and the Rockets are lucky to have him but they could do better at that position. Why is that so hard for people to deal with?
An example of doing better at that position would be bringing in Artest and hoping he has his head screwed on straight. Assuming Artest pulls no crazy sh*t (a very strong assumption, I know), I think most posters on this board would be OK with trading Shane for Artest. Of course, Artest's history of flaking makes it tough to pull the trigger on such a trade. Doing better at the position is NOT Sasha Pavlovic. There is a reason we don't want McGrady guarding the Kobe's and Vince Carter's, it's because it tires him out, his energy is limited these days and we need him to expend it on offense. Sure McGrady guarding Kobe is fine in spurts, but if we do it for an entire game McGrady will wear down by the end. This is why we have Shane to handle the bulk of the tough defensive assignment. Sasha Pavlovic would NOT fit this role. His defense is far inferior to Battier's defense. People talk about his improved defense, but it's improved from the level of "My defense is my offense." Battier's defense is all-defensive team caliber. That doesn't make up for the slight improvement in offense that we may get. Pavlovic has only been decent this year, and it is uncertain whether he will sustain it. Shane has been in the league for years and basically done the same things. In fact is not merely a spot-up shooter, he can post up and has a decent dribble-drive, it was just that JVG used him that way. He averaged career highs in treys attempted and made, and a career low in FT's.
I agree the SF spot is not perfect, but I guess many of us have problem when you suggest a player like Pavlovic.. From what I have read so far and as many ppl has mentioned previously, Battier is tradable, but only if we could get a significant upgrade in return, i.e. a near-all-star lvl PF that could help the current Rockets, not some unproven subpar SF like Pavlovic,
I agree primarily with what you're saying about Battier as it relates to Pavlovic and 100% regarding Artest being a better move. I cannot agree however, on the idea that JVG just used Battier in that way. Battier has never been a player in college or the pros who could create his own shot. He is limited offensively in terms of his ability to rise up for a jumper over his man, put the ball on the floor and run by his man or simply shake his man and create a shot. He is a fundamentally sound player which at times is boring. He's not a highlight type guy nor does he have to be . He's just vanilla and for some that's enough.
No, it is not sane. Battier's shortcoming is that he doesn't shoot enough. Shane is much better overall and there isn't a GM in the league that would trade Battier for Pavlovic straight up.
That's why he has limited trade value. I'm not implying that Pavlovic is better than Battier,but he isn't better than Artest.
