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Hey Baseball History buffs: rate the following 2B all-time

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by msn, Jun 27, 2007.

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  1. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    From http://www.baseball-reference.com/

    Hits
    10. Eddie Collins+* 3315
    13. Nap Lajoie+ 3242
    27. Craig Biggio (41) 2997
    32. Rogers Hornsby+ 2930
    37. Frankie Frisch+# 2880
    43. Charlie Gehringer+* 2839
    51. Roberto Alomar# 2724
    81. Joe Morgan+* 2517
    137. Jeff Kent (39) 2256

    Runs
    14. Eddie Collins+* 1821
    15. Craig Biggio (41) 1820
    19. Charlie Gehringer+* 1774
    30. Joe Morgan+* 1650
    45. Rogers Hornsby+ 1579
    51. Frankie Frisch+# 1532
    59. Roberto Alomar# 1508
    62. Nap Lajoie+ 1504

    Doubles
    6. Craig Biggio (41) 658
    7. Nap Lajoie+ 657
    19. Charlie Gehringer+* 574
    24. Rogers Hornsby+ 541
    35. Jeff Kent (39) 518
    42. Roberto Alomar# 504
    67. Frankie Frisch+# 466
    80. Joe Morgan+* 449
    98. Eddie Collins+* 438

    Total Bases
    27. Rogers Hornsby+ 4712
    31. Craig Biggio (41) 4623
    40. Nap Lajoie+ 4474
    50. Eddie Collins+* 4268
    53. Charlie Gehringer+* 4257
    72. Roberto Alomar# 4018
    75. Joe Morgan+* 3962
    80. Frankie Frisch+# 3937
    81. Jeff Kent (39) 3931

    Extra base hits
    25. Rogers Hornsby+ 1011
    27. Craig Biggio (41) 999
    49. Jeff Kent (39) 919
    52. Charlie Gehringer+* 904
    53. Nap Lajoie+ 903
    84. Joe Morgan+* 813
    92. Roberto Alomar# 794

    Stolen Bases
    7. Eddie Collins+* 744
    11. Joe Morgan+* 689
    40. Roberto Alomar# 474
    58. Frankie Frisch+# 419
    61. Craig Biggio (41) 413
    80. Nap Lajoie+ 380

    + - Indicates Hall of Famer
    * - bats left-handed,
    # - switch hits
     
    #21 No Worries, Jun 28, 2007
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    wow...bidge is in the top 3 of every one of those categories all-time, except stolen bases where he's 5th
     
    #22 MadMax, Jun 28, 2007
  3. WhoMikeJames

    WhoMikeJames Contributing Member

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    Thanks for that No Worries. I never realized he was in the top of all of those categories. :eek:
     
    #23 WhoMikeJames, Jun 28, 2007
  4. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    I confess that I cherry picked some the categories like runs (instead of RBIs or HRs), which favor lead off hitters. But there is no denying Biggio is likely under-rated by most folks, especially his power numbers.
     
    #24 No Worries, Jun 28, 2007
  5. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Right and from what I have read, there has been no one who was more straight-laced than Collins. Not only would he not even think about participating in something so shady like throwing a series, I don't even know if he would think about having a beer, LOL.

    But I would have to rank him as the greatest 2B of all-time.
     
    #25 Manny Ramirez, Jun 28, 2007
  6. msn

    msn Member

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    A couple more:

    OPS
    9. Rogers Hornsby+ 1.0103
    79. Charlie Gehringer+* .8841
    84. Jackie Robinson+ .8826
    128. Jeff Kent (39) .8579
    146. Eddie Collins+* .8534
    167. Nap Lajoie+ .8467
    273. Joe Morgan+* .8192
    303. Roberto Alomar# .8141
    383. Frankie Frisch+# .8007
    391. Craig Biggio (41) .7991

    HR
    70. Jeff Kent (39) 355
    113. Rogers Hornsby+ 301
    128(T). Craig Biggio (41) 286
    133(T). Ryne Sandberg+ 282
    148(T). Joe Morgan+* 268
    250. Roberto Alomar# 210
    316(T). Charlie Gehringer+* 184
    455(T). Jackie Robinson+ 137
    640(T). Frankie Frisch+# 105
    846(T). Nap Lajoie+ 83
    <1000(?). Eddie Collins+* 47

    I threw Sandberg on this list because he did hit a lot of dingers for a 2B. Also, bb-reference.com only had 1001 players listed for career home runs (those with 70 or more).
     
    #26 msn, Jun 28, 2007
  7. BSW

    BSW Contributing Member

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    I won't rate them as I did not get to see them all play...but I will say this....if Joe Morgan says that Biggio is not a HOFer then I suggest he remove himself.
     
    #27 BSW, Jun 28, 2007
  8. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    Heck Biggio should be in the Hall of Fame for getting beaned all those times. That shows some real discipline and dedication.
     
    #28 Sishir Chang, Jun 28, 2007
  9. jakedasnake

    jakedasnake Member

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    I have always considered Biggio to be one of the best all-around players in baseball during his prime. Not many players had as many tools as him as well as the little things that help your team win. For example, running out a grounder, stretching a single into a double, getting beamed , not hitting into a double play for an entire season. Also, just the way he has played the game all of these years, being able to play catcher, second base, and center field. I am glad someone showed the list of his doubles, extra base hits, total bases. Oh and BTW he is still counting. :) Wouldn't that be sweet if he went on a tear now that this is over. He was swinging pretty well last night and we know what he can do when he gets hot.
     
    #29 jakedasnake, Jun 29, 2007
  10. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    i think few would rate even prime biggio as "awesome" defensively. he was very good, but never as good as alomar. i'm too tired to pull statistical evidence, so i'll favor anecdotal: he won 10 GGs - not definitive, but not entirely dismissive, either. and then i found this reference to another article: "A recent Sports Illustrated article ranked him behind only Bill Mazeroski among the best defensive second baseman of all time." the guy was a switch-hitter and - don't forget - a key, driving member of two WS championships in toronto.

    i'd rank him ahead of biggio - he was so smooth and fluid and fast in the field. his range certainly surpassed biggio - again, anecdotal, but i remember him behind 2b a lot, making plays.

    were it not for the spitting incident... he'd WIDELY be considered the absolute best 2b of his era.
     
    #30 Hey Now!, Jun 29, 2007
  11. msn

    msn Member

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    A Neyer article recently mentioned Alomar as "ridiculously underrated" or somesuch. I was wrong about Alomar; thanks to everyone for the commentary. The 90s being so long ago, everything non-Astros is getting fuzzy.

    Being less that Alomar, one of the greatest defensive 2b-man of all-time, doesn't necessarily mean Biggio wasn't awesome in his own right. I heard a lot of folks lauding his defense back in his day. His range was good, his footwork outstanding, and his arm was only weakness.
     
    #31 msn, Jun 29, 2007
  12. MaxwellsTemper

    MaxwellsTemper Member

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    I'm gonna open by saying I LOVE Craig Biggio and he is probably my favorite player of all time from the Astros organization. But he was never "awesome" on the defensive side. By no means was he a liability or anything like that during his prime, but he has never been awesome.
     
    #32 MaxwellsTemper, Jul 3, 2007
  13. msn

    msn Member

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    When did you watch, and quantify your criticisms.

    His footwork was tremendous. He made up for a noodle arm with fantastic footwork. A lot of DPs that should have been broken up with good slides he still made because of that footwork.

    His range was fantastic. It wasn't Alomar, but it was well above average. He also got to a lot of bloops and flares in the shallow outfield that are normally singles.

    Dude was awesome in his prime. Awesome.
     
    #33 msn, Jul 5, 2007
  14. codell

    codell Contributing Member

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    1. Hunter Pence
    2. Hornsby
    3. Morgan
    4. Robinson
    5. Biggio
    6. Lajoie
    7. Gehringer
    8. Alomar
    9. Frisch
    10. Kent
    11. Collins
     
    #34 codell, Jul 5, 2007
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